motivation to learn Finnish, anyone succeeded?

[N_kelee]

My Finnish is coming along ok, but there seems to be a general negative attitude evident in many articles regarding foreigners being unable to learn Finnish, so I was starting to wonder if they were true...

In Finland my only friends are all Finns with long family histories in this country (so no foreigners with flawless Finnish), which is why I had no idea whether there are any foreigners out there with flawless Finnish.

Even though I asked about a job, I was using that as the ultimate measure of "fluency" in Finnish langauge. I just want to know that it can be done... to speak Finnish well enough to be employable

I suppose though that unlike most Indo-European langauges Finnish isn't a langauge that will be picked up without too much study

Everyone's comments were great

[Papu]

Just an interesting side note. I did not believe this when I heard it at first. In only started believing it when it happened to me. A Finnish teacher friend of mine told me that one of the things that can help a student most is to be away for a few weeks. After about 3 years in Finland I made my first trip home. After that stuff just made sense. I don't really have a rational explanation for it, I just know that it all came together after that. Best of luck![/quote]


It´s true! same happened to me with spanish and lot´s of people I know with other languages.... why is that?

[Andrew_S]

If you are not a native English speaker go away up north and attend a Finnish course and say you know no English. Else stay where you are and say you know know English (not easy maybe).

If you are a native English speaker, dunno.

[Suomalainen]

Hate to revive and old thread but thought it would worth it.

I know one. My mom. Came here when she was ~25. Now after 20 years (or rather 10) shes so good you cant really tell unless your native and concentrate. Usually she she speaks dutch to me but the funny thing is that when shes mad she starts to talk finnish and making alot errors, no clue why.


So anyway, theres hope. 5 years to be fluent, another 5 to perfect your pronounciation.

[haahatus]

I have met a few of these people. They have a slight accent. People most often dont notice if they dont know or care especially. Depening on where they come from they are mistaken for a suomenruotsalainen if someone does notice. The only problem is if someone like him doesent speak for a long time it takes a few hours untill the speech get to the optimal level so rarely it is really obvious. But also native people have reported this phenomen. Also some make seldom random errors if they are angry and very very tired. Like "älä puhu paska" . But mostly no one ever notices anything talking to them.

No Finnish is not impossible to learn.

[enk]

I have met a few of these people. They have a slight accent. People most often dont notice if they dont know or care especially. Depening on where they come from they are mistaken for a suomenruotsalainen if someone does notice. The only problem is if someone like him doesent speak for a long time it takes a few hours untill the speech get to the optimal level so rarely it is really obvious. But also native people have reported this phenomen. Also some make seldom random errors if they are angry and very very tired. Like "älä puhu paska" . But mostly no one ever notices anything talking to them.

No Finnish is not impossible to learn.

Hey, do we know each other? Most people say that about me.
My Finnish is pretty ok, except for when I'm:

1) tired
2) pissed off
3) or generally don't care.

I came here when I was 22 and most people think I'm a
Finnish Swede or an Estonian. If we stick to banalties, then
I can fool people for years

The only problem with someone thinking you are "bättre folk" though
is that they can get pretty snitty about it.

What about Holman's Finnish? What does it sound like to Finns who
know him?

I knew an intrepreting teacher from UAB in Barcelona who could
fool Finns into thinking he was Finnish. They never realized though
that he only knew a few certain sentences and phrases But the
guy had an impeccable accent in some 9 languages

-enk

EDIT: 21-->22

[soda]

I've met very very few foreigners here who speak well - and my observation is that those that do are generaly not from English-speaking, or even first world, countries.

I know one US guy who makes veyr few errors, but by and large the foreigners I ave met who are close to prefect are Albanian, Turkish etc - maybe they simply feel they have no choice, but for an Englishmen, society doesn't view you as vermin if you can't speak perfectly.

But it is damn hard - I have taken about 12 courses in all, including repeating levels 1, 3, and 5 at Kielikeskus - something I reccomend doing. The first time the grammar is new and weird, the 2nd time you can start putting it into practice a bit more.

However - I do think this attitude is unhelpful:

think six months working / training in finnish should see you most of the way through from B1/2 to C1, provided a) you understand the grammar and b) you really do use the language.

I think it's fair to say most foreigners will need at least 5 years to reach C1, and 90% never will. I work as a linguist, and I would say very few if my clients will ever reach C1 in English - despite 20 years of speaking the language. Understanding inference, such as puns and allusions, is not a goal one should be thinking of after 2 years study.

I think this is much more realistic:

Within about 3 years I was speaking when I had to. A year or two after that and I didn't need English at all.

That's how it has been for me too.

[Samppa]

I know at least 5 persons, older than 18, not Finns, who learned Finnish and speak it perfectly (well..). All of them are students, actually studying in Finnish and also write(some already wrote) their thesises.

[Naavaneito]

Hello,
my friend from Holland speaks Finnish fluetly. Actually, sometimes even better than I do, although I am native Finnish speaker. She told me it took her 1,5 years to be able to have good conversations without serious mistakes. Also, I met one women from Brazil this summer. She started studying Finnish 1,5 years ago. We talked Finnish without any problems, so she was quite fluent already.

[soda]

Naavaneito -

well, I suppose it is plausible, but I have to say it is extremely rare. Perhaps 1 in 1,000 or less learners will learn error-free Finnish in less than 3 years. And this is backed up by research.

I've met one woman who had learned an amazing amount in 8 months, but only 1 out of several hundred learners I've been in contact with.

[Naavaneito]

I don't believe that Finnish is any harder to learn than any other language from a different language family. I studied 10 years English and this is my second year in UK. My language is still not very fluent and error free. My friend found 60 mistakes from my latest essay and it is sometimes tiring. However, I during the first 20 years of my life I managed to learn 4 languages (3 foreign ones) so well that I was able to write essays and have conversations in all those. So why Finnish would be any harder than for example Russian or Japanese? I think I would manage to teach both of these languages to myself if needed.

But yes, learning a language is at least part time work and it typically takes several years. Good luck for all of you!

[yamoussoukro]

I know some foreigners in Finland who after +2 years speak Finnish well enough to understand everything Finns are saying(if not from Rauma), and to be able to talk about any subject they would be with their native language. Native languages are Swahili, German and English. They still make mistakes, but that's because they are human beings.

I know many foreigners who after +10 years in Finland, speak fluent Finnish. They can talk about anything they want. They use Finnish idioms or even make up their owns. They do have some accent, and sometimes they make little mistakes, but that's because they are human beings.

I've talked about learning Finnish with these people and found out some interesting things.

1. Most of them are/were married with a Finn.
2. They started speaking Finnish right away, when then knew very little.
3. Most of them have previous experience in learning a second language.
4. Most of them were under 30 years old, when they came to Finland.
5. Most of them are outgoing, sociable and talkative.

Someone has said that in learning a language the last 10% is much harder to achieve than the first 90% of it. So very often people don't see the point in working their asses of to be perfect, when they can use that time to learn another language or do some ice-fishing. And when they can already use the language as they feel, why stress about a slight accent?
Most of the Finns have learned another language, so we know that it's hard work, we don't take it for granted that people come here and learn Finnish, as can be the case with English in some countries. It takes patience to live in another country, and to sound like a child, when you don't speak properly yet. Then again, I've always thought that it makes me listen other people more, and that's a good quality in a person.

[otyikondo]

Good post, yamoussoukro

"It takes patience to live in another country, and to sound like a child, when you don't speak properly yet."

Now there's the rub for many. That self-abasement that is so necessary if you are going to get anywhere. Hard for anglophones to get their head around, when they've been so used to looking down on others at seminars where English is taken for granted. Not "being funny" in a language, just "sounding funny" instead, is a whole new ballgame. And one reason why you are more likely to find a fluent Somali than a fluent American or Brit here.

And the reference to the last 10%, too. But then again, everyone knows that the most common language in the world is bad English. And 90% puts you pretty high up the pecking-order already.

I've lived here a long time. I've never studied (above one abortive lesson) formally. I'm fluent enough. The other 10% I mumble and swallow case-endings if I'm unsure. Nobody seems to mind.

And I can usually complete the Suomen Kuvalehti Piilosana. Not that that helps much.

[kmboll]

Like "älä puhu paska" ..

Yep, exactly how I would have said it What should it be? Älä puhu sinä paska? This might come in handy sometime

[haahatus]

its "älä puhu paskaa"