Did they get license to kill? Buses and Lorries!!

[rider1000]

Shifting lanes because someone else is merging into the lane is wrong practice, also unlawful in Finland afaik.

So you're saying it's illegal to move over to let a vehicle merge into traffic? What?!?

I know that as the vehicle attempting to merge, you are required to yield. So how is allowing that vehicle the space to merge safely a problem?

Or maybe I'm confused.

[007]

Shifting lanes because someone else is merging into the lane is wrong practice, also unlawful in Finland afaik.

So you're saying it's illegal to move over to let a vehicle merge into traffic? What?!?

I know that as the vehicle attempting to merge, you are required to yield. So how is allowing that vehicle the space to merge safely a problem?

Or maybe I'm confused.

I did some google in my effort to come up with pertinent laws but in vain. Found an article ".. Poliisin tulkinnan mukaan kyseessä on kuitenkin tieliikennelain tarkoittama tarpeeton kaistanvaihto. Siitä voi seurata sakot."

it's for motorways, but not sure if this applies elsewhere.

[Upphew]

Shifting lanes because someone else is merging into the lane is wrong practice, also unlawful in Finland afaik.

So you're saying it's illegal to move over to let a vehicle merge into traffic? What?!?

I know that as the vehicle attempting to merge, you are required to yield. So how is allowing that vehicle the space to merge safely a problem?

Or maybe I'm confused.

Switching lanes without reason is illegal. If you drive motorway, you have the right of way and thus if you don't have any reason to switch lanes.

Ystäväni kanssa tuli puheeksi, kuinka hänelle opetettiin autokoulussa, että poliisi voi sakottaa, jos moottoritiellä vaihtaa kaistaa vasemmalle rampin kohdalla tehdäkseen tilaa moottoritielle liittyville autoilijoille. Tämä kuulostaisi aivan järjen vastaiselta ja tieliikennelaissakin kielletään vain vaihtamasta kaistaa tarpeettomasti. Onko tämänkaltainen kaistanvaihto myös poliisin kannan mukaan "tarpeeton"?

Kyllä poliisi on samaa mieltä siitä, että kaistanvaihto on tarpeetonta moottoritiellä liittymistien kohdalla pelkästään liittymisen helpottamiseksi.

Tieliikenneasetuksen 14 § mukaan risteyksessä kolmion takaa tulevan on väistettävä risteävällä tiellä kulkevia ajoneuvoja. Tieliikennelain 21 § mukaan ajokaistaa saa vaihtaa tai muuten siirtää ajoneuvoa sivusuunnassa vain, milloin se voi tapahtua vaaratta ja muita tarpeettomasti estämättä. Tieliikennelaki ei kuitenkaan estä moottoritiellä liittymistien kohdalla ohittamaan lähtemistä kunhan ajoneuvon kuljettaja on tarkoin varmistunut, ettei siitä aiheudu vaaraa.

Äkkiä ajateltuna tuntuisi kohteliaalta sekä joustavalta tavalta siirtyä vasemmalle kaistalle helpottaakseen kiihdytyskaistalta tulevien liittymistä moottoritielle. Tämä saattaisi kuitenkin johtaa vaaratilanteisiin, koska kuljettaja ei useinkaan tällaisissa tilanteissa ehdi seurata riittävän pitkään takaa tulevaa liikennettä varmistuakseen turvallisesta kaistanvaihdosta.

Moottoritielle liittyminen on yhteispeliä. Moottoritietä ajava voi omalla toiminnallaan mahdollistaa ns. vetoketjuperiaatteen toteutumisen jättämällä riittävästi etäisyyttä edellä ajavaan. Kiihdytyskaistalta tulevan on sopeutettava oma nopeutensa sellaiseksi, että hänen kuljettamansa ajoneuvo voi siirtyä turvallisesti moottoritielle.

Mahdollisissa onnettomuustapauksissa poliisi suorittaa paikkatutkinnan. Asianosaisten aikomukset selvitetään kuulusteluissa ja viime kädessä oikeudessa ratkaistaan kuljettajien vastuukysymykset.

source: http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/lp/home.n ... BA00349F4F

[riku2]

Switching lanes without reason is illegal. If you drive motorway, you have the right of way and thus if you don't have any reason to switch lanes.

And also those drivers switching lanes, although well intentioned, encourage those joining the motorway to drive straight on, with the assumption that all other drivers will make a space for them. You see this again and again on motorways here. This was actually the original post. So changing lanes to let people on rather than having them adjust their speed to fit in with existing traffic encourages bad driving.

Similarly driving your motorbike on the very right hand edge of the road encourages other car drivers to overtake you where they shouldn't. Instead motobikers should drive down the middle of their lane and encourage other car drivers to treat them like a small car and so overtake in proper places.

There's also a disaster if you join a motorway expecting to adjust your speed to match the traffic and someone already on the motorway brakes to let you in front of them.. so should you really slow down to let them have priority (since that is what the law says should happen) .. so they slow down even more thinking they are doing a good deed?

Part of the problem in finland is not enough traffic and people not exposed to heavy traffic. If they lived in holland or the UK they would learn to drive on roads full of thousands of other cars. but when the roads are almost empty and many people live a hundred km or more from the nearest motorway then chaos (and higher accident rates) follow.

[rider1000]

This is interesting. I honestly had no idea these rules existed in Finland.

I'm used to driving in the USA, where it's the accepted practice to move over (if possible and safe) to allow incoming traffic to merge. This prevents them from having to stop at the top of the on-ramp causing a back up and then having to accelerate 0-60 in 2.8 seconds to not impede the flow of traffic on the highway. However, it is still the duty of the merging traffic to ensure that they can do so safely. To be clear, you should never slow down to make room for someone on the motorway, that just creates a mess. Moving over to create a gap is not slowing down.

In my head, this makes more sense than forcing the incoming drivers to slow down to find an empty space, then speed up drastically to catch up with the flow of traffic so they aren't smashed by the next car coming. But I didn't grow up driving in Finland, so my opinions are different.

[Flossy1978]

Yes, I know it's illegal, but it's a common practise here. I see it every single day driving home from work (not to, cause I go when there's no traffic).

But even in my friend's driving course and my own, we were told we could do it if we are careful, even though it's illegal.

I don't think the police even care. I've seen them driving just normal without lights on all the way down the motorway in the left lane...... And even move over themselves to allow merging traffic.

So I think it's just a bullsh*t law no one follows LOL.

Of course in peakhour it's not possible to move over.... You just have to hope there's someone who will kind of slow down enough for you to merge onto the main road. And since traffic is often going so slow during peakhour, it's possible to do it.

[S.richard]

Any way, It seems the discussions were not in the right track..

Actually the focus of the post was the desperate and careless driving of the most Lorry and bus drivers while changing lanes. They don't have interest to check whether there is any existing traffic beside him. They just blink and change lanes. And such practice is increasing rapidly.

[riku2]

Actually the focus of the post was the desperate and careless driving of the most Lorry and bus drivers while changing lanes. They don't have interest to check whether there is any existing traffic beside him.

I am sure it is related to the low amount of traffic in finland most of the time. Why signal and take care to look when 99% of the time the motorway is almost empty (by western european standards). When seeing how relatives from pohjanmaa drive it's obvious that they look and signal even less than those in the south.. empty roads mean no need to learn to look out for other vehicles. One relative doesn't even keep right at junctions when there is a little island and blue arrow saying keep right. she takes the shortest route to turn since the roads are mostly empty.
When these kind of people venture into the capital area there is trouble - you can see the difference on Ring 1 where it's three lanes wide. monday-friday all three lanes are used. weekends: only the left two lanes are used, the country bumpkins are not used to any road wider than two lanes so only use the left two .. they are almost guaranteed to join Ring 1 and move immediately across all lanes to get to those left two lanes. Same for exit (probably without signalling)

[rider1000]

Any way, It seems the discussions were not in the right track..

Actually the focus of the post was the desperate and careless driving of the most Lorry and bus drivers while changing lanes. They don't have interest to check whether there is any existing traffic beside him. They just blink and change lanes. And such practice is increasing rapidly.

It's all about the law of the lug-nuts. The vehicle with the most will usually win. They know that you're screwed if you plow into them, so you'll do everything in your power to avoid smashing into the back of a bus or lorry.

We just need a few brave souls to careen into the trucks, hopefully surviving, so that the lorry drivers learn. But when the po-po shows up, who was at fault? The lorry that didn't signal, or the volvo that plowed into the back of him. It's a slippery slope, but I'm still going to attempt to avoid crashing.

[Upphew]

But when the po-po shows up, who was at fault? The lorry that didn't signal, or the volvo that plowed into the back of him. It's a slippery slope, but I'm still going to attempt to avoid crashing.

Volvo. Almost 100% of time the one who crashes to back end of another car, the one behind is the guilty one.

In my head, this makes more sense than forcing the incoming drivers to slow down to find an empty space, then speed up drastically to catch up with the flow of traffic so they aren't smashed by the next car coming. But I didn't grow up driving in Finland, so my opinions are different.

They shouldn't slow down to find an empty space nor speed up drastically. Cars driving on the motorway should keep safe distance and you can easily fit a lorry to that. But screw the people merging! They won't get in front of me and keeping 2 meter distance from bumper to bumper ensures that, illegal or not.

[Liam1]

It's not THAT hard to merge in. specially as 50% of Finnish drivers are like Upphew and the other 50% like Flossy. Think there is quite a positive correlation between driver type and gender!

So you merge and if "Flossy-type" is there - no problems a space will magically appear

If "Upphew-type" is there, he will speed up to stop you getting ahead and thus leave you a gap behind him. You then try to screw him back by then boxing him in if you can (safely of course) get into the next lane

PS I'm definitely an Upphew type and judging from the earache I get from the passenger seat, my wife is a Floss-type!!!

[riku2]

what about the situation where there is a truck joining the motorway and a car behind it which also wants to join.
There seem two things the car driver can do
a) drive impatiently really close behind the truck on the slip road, expecting there to be a gap big enough for the car and the truck to join the motorway together.
b) slow down on the slip road so there is a good gap between the car and the truck. the truck can then merge, the car driver can then decide whether to merge straight behind the truck or a bit later.

I have seen that in Finland approximately 100% of drivers fall into category A, always hoping that the motorway has big enough gaps for both themselves and the truck in front. About 40% will then immediately move to the second lane on the motorway to overtake the truck (we'll they've waited behind on the slip road so all patience has been used up). If this means being in the outside lane of the motorway but only doing 90 - well who cares. The really impatient ones will be in lane 2 of the motorway even before the truck has crossed from the sliproad into lane1.

[Liam1]

There seem two things the car driver can do

You've forgotten a 3rd option that I often see.

3) "Undertake" the truck by speeding past on the slip road and join in front of it!!!!

[rider1000]

Volvo. Almost 100% of time the one who crashes to back end of another car, the one behind is the guilty one.

Exactly. They'll pull out in front of us all day long because it won't be their "fault" when you rear-end them. And they're not going to feel the bump from the volvo flattening itself to the trailer.

Moral of the story, people are idiots, drive defensively...

[MikeD]

But when the po-po shows up, who was at fault? The lorry that didn't signal, or the volvo that plowed into the back of him. It's a slippery slope, but I'm still going to attempt to avoid crashing.

Volvo. Almost 100% of time the one who crashes to back end of another car, the one behind is the guilty one.

This is a common misconception. If the lorry changes lanes in front of the Volvo and the Volvo crashes into it, it is the lorry driver who's at fault - regardless of whether he used his signal or not.