Difficult cultural/social things to understand or deal with

[Alex.Sm]

1. The amount of divorces in Finland is huge, and I don't understand it why ... I think maybe because it's so easy to divorce instead of fixing some problems in marriage?

Many times, the divorce rate in a country correlates perfectly with the amount of economical independence that women have in the country and also with the "religiousness" of the place. There are reference, but I am too lazy to look for them

2. The alcohol policy and alcohol education really suxx in Finland. It's not that high taxes on alcohol make's people stop drinking and it's not that trying to prevent people from drinking is what will make them not to drink.

I agree. Alcohol education is very strange and it certainly does not work too well.

What puzzles me is that dealing with (for example) tobacco, Finland has really succeeded (from my point of view).
People do not smoke a lot and also there is no mysticism around tobacco.

True. Women in Finland are quite independent and career oriented. Maybe that's the reason also why a country so big has only 5.5 millions people if you understand what I mean? but that's other story.

[biscayne]

Had to laugh at the OP and some of the comments, particularly the ones about the stiffness and formality at "occasion" birthdays (50,60 and so on).

Few years ago (during one of my sojourns in Finland) SO's Granny had her 80th or 90th, can't remember. Now, bear in mind, she was in a Nursing Home, lying in a bed in a vegatative state. So, we all trundle off to the Nursing Home. The SO, who was (and probably still is) a pony-tailed metal/hockey head (well, who isn't in Finland.......) is wearing a full-on suit, tie, dress shoes, the works. The rellies are dressed up too. Granny has been wheeled in her bed into a room where quite an elaborate presentation of coffee, cakes etc. has been set up, you know, the "nice" cups and so on. The atmosphere was tighter than a nun's knickers, and literally we are all just gathered around looking at this poor old lady lying there, all her muscles contracted and staring blankly at us. Then a priest/vicar/pastor/minister (whatever you offically call the E.L. priests) appears, looking exactly like what you might imagine a stiff, sombre kind of Calvinist pastor should look like, long white side-beard without mustache, and sort of like the preacher potrayed by Max von Sudov in Hawaii. Suddenly, and without warning he blasts into somekind of completely non-melodic hymn in a really kind of scary tone. It was surreal. The he prays over the the sick-bed, and then after some other stuff, all carefully choreographed, we were allowed to have coffee in a very ordered and precise manner. The whole thing lasted for ages, even though nothing was actually happening and nobody was really talking or saying anything to each other. I love Finland, and always felt I adapted really well there, I love the way people don't get into your personal space which I hate, but I do remember that day as being an excercise in scary weirdness.

I'm Irish and while I have absolutely no interest in the Catholic church and want nothing to do with them, I do remember the priests as being really jolly and great craic at occasions like that, if it was a wake in a house for example, you'd literally have to weld the drinks cabinet shut to keep the priest away from the 12 year old stuff. When my grandparents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary they had a mass and a party. The priest was locked most of the night, everyone had to do a "party piece" , including those who shouldn't have...........the refreshments did not consist of coffee and cake............

My brother's wife's brother is married to a German woman and living in Cologne with her and funnily enough, my brother's wife complains about similar situations when involved in family things there. She was there recently for her brother's parents in law's anniversary, again, afternoon party as opposed to night-time, coffee and cake, strictly choreographed. She couldn't believe the amount of time people took to choose a cake and the oohing and aahing over the choosing of the cake. They then had to watch a slide show of the couple's first bicycles they had together as a couple, but in a serious way. I did mention to her that probably the Germans oohed and aahed over the cake-choosing thing, because they probably don't eat it everyday, and it's a "thing", which is why they are not as fat as the Irish and the Brits - now Europes fatties.......... Also, the sombre E.L. priest, probably was not spending too much time having a go at the alter-boys and orphans...................................

[Oombongo]

Things I have learned after living a bit over a decade.

1. Things are outrageously expensive. I mean seriously? Probably because natives are duped into believing that if they are paying a lot for something then it must be good. Got me winter boots for a fraction of price in UK than what would I be paying in Finland.
2. Natives who have been foreignized and assimilated are sweethearts while others are err..primitive with basic verbal skills? ...let's say it is like watching blockbuster in HFR vs watching Roundhay Garden Scene
3. Saying excuse me if you need to way is forbidden. Bumping is acceptable. Surely, it happens in other countries too but I would expect it better in a county which is proud to hold first position in you know, education and whatnot. Yes, I say anteeksi. You don't like it, it is your problem.
4. Heaven forbid if you end up being unemployed then government machinery may try to derail your career to keep up those pretty looking unemployment stats in its favor.
5. We could use some "trespassers will be shot" signboards
6. Lack of body language, and no I don't mean playing a music conductor. Must be something to do with historical reason like protofinns being in ice and cold for the first time?
7. If you open a door for someone out of sheer politeness then there will be at least 2 souls try to get in/get out specially in stockmann. Feeling to troll? open the door for someone, and then let the door go on those two lazy souls. Enjoy the show with a big grin all over your face. This can be a filmed and uploaded on youtube as well.


Good thing about this country: you can be left alone, and no one is bothering you. And it seems that the younger generation is more open than their peers from say 1960s.

and for the love of heavens, who the hell comes up with the idea of increasing taxation on booze to discourage people from getting bottoms up !"#¤%-faced? that person seriously needs a kick in butt, or better a pear of anguish. He/She/It/They are just doing it all wrong.

[masao]

To the original poster.
That was a very good observations of the Finns here. I believe that many people, including me, share your feelings.
I would have omitted the religious loonies from the writing to make it more readable and compact. The loonies are special cases.

The item 2 caught my attention.

Hi dearest forum members,

2) One the one hand most Finns are very patriotic& promote their country's advantages (especially to foreigners). On the other hand they complain a lot how expensive it is, how bad the weather is etc.

Thanks so much in advance!
Have a great Christmas time

I believe that you are fluent in Finnish and are reading Finnish papers every day. So what is your reasons to say that the Finns are patriotic? I am curious to know because I think the same and
maybe we have the same reasons.
I come up with several reasons.

(1) The most watched TV program in a year is, and always have been, The Independence Day Presidential Palace dance party.
(2) People go and watch the movies like "Matti" and "Sel8nne", while the movies made by Klaus Härö do not succeed in box office.
(3) People often write their opinions in a newspaper using their favorite phrase, "we have built this welfare nation...." "Olemme rakentaneet tämän hyvinvointivaltion", whenever they complain about small pensions
or about you and me living on Kela money.
(4) Several years ago, in Ilta Sanomat, they did Gallup to find out how many young boys would go to the army if it is not obligatory. The 80% of them answered that they would anyway.
A few years later, there were an article in Talous Sanomat, that if you would like to get a job in the European countries, you'd better not mention your army period, because they would think that
you are gun-toting fanatics.

I would not mention my nationality here because there are always "diversion-loving locals", who start to say that "i bumped into people in Tokyo but they never say sorry" or "In Osaka they never return changes into my hand"
After all I love this small northern tribe. With their limitations and complex, they are doing quite fine. I always think of Holden Caulfield posing in front of bathroom mirror when I think of the Finns.
On the other hand I thank my mom everyday that I was born elsewhere.

t, masao

[Upphew]

True. Women in Finland are quite independent and career oriented. Maybe that's the reason also why a country so big has only 5.5 millions people if you understand what I mean? but that's other story.

Independence is bad? Quality over quantity? That people have sex only to breed?

[Alex.Sm]

True. Women in Finland are quite independent and career oriented. Maybe that's the reason also why a country so big has only 5.5 millions people if you understand what I mean? but that's other story.

Independence is bad? Quality over quantity? That people have sex only to breed?

Women independence is not a bad thing. But that leads to carrier oriented women (so they will be independent) and the family is left a bit on a third plan. Based on how I see it in Finland it goes like this (for booth men and women):
1. career
2. living your life
3. family (kids)
or
1. living your life
2. career
3 family (kids)

Quality or quantity doesn't have anything to do with assuring the future of the country and the work force. The kids are the next generation that will get educated, go to work and pay taxes so we will have a pension. Of course reproducing like rabbits is also a bad thing, just check the situation in some countries where families have 7-8-10 kids and they live under the sky. That's pure irresponsibility and lack of education.

On the other hand in some countries where women are not independent but "gold diggers" which again is not good! In my former home country (EU) for example, a guy pays for everything (take girlfriend out, dinner, clubs, drinks, food, shopping, clothes, phone ... everything). When I meet my wife (finnish) she wanted to pay her part and I was shocked and she told me that this is the culture in Finland. Men and women are equal and everybody pays his/her own things/share. We are not that way we have our money together (not my money and her money). I know married couples with kids that have their money separately and if one of them finishes his money he has to borrow from the other one and return them at salary. I also know that once the wife went on holiday abroad and the husband staid at home because he didn't had money ... that's ridiculous and from my point of view it's not a family. But hey this is Finland and women are independent. Different cultures understand the family concept differently.

[Porky84]

Dear masao,
thanks you for empathizing with ym feelings and observations. Yes the "loonies" are a special chapter,hehe. I just included it, because my mother-in-law is one of them, her behavior is odd to me. We get along somehow, she lives anyway quite far away, so we don't have much contact.
Thanks you for the compliment. I'm not fluent in Finnsh (if fluency means udnerstanding every word in the newspapers and spoken language) and I often make grammatical mistakes, but besides that I can communicate pretty well.

I believe the Finns are patriotic, because they just got their independence 1917. It seems they strongly want to conserve their own traditions ad distinct themselves from the other Scandinavian countries and Russia. In my opinion it is a very positive thing. It makes me sad that many German traditions are dying out, also our local dialects in Germany are partly exctinct already.
I just sometimes get the impression that some Finns (more in the country side) feel threatened by other cultures. I believe they just need to get more used to foreigenrs in such areas. e.g. in Germany, we've had foreigners for a long time and most Germans are used to them. In Finland the amount of foreigners has been increasing just during the past 20-30 years or so.
I agree with your reasons. Also, I've noticed they put up their national flag much more often than we do in Germany. The like to do the traditional things that belong to each pyhäpäivä. Maybe quite many Finns are doing things the way they have been done for hundreds of years.
Another funny thing: for my husband some traditions and things are so obvious and normal (he is so used to them) that he didn't even tell me about them. Just when we walked and I asked he says: on that day or time of the year we always do so and so...
On this year's independence day I "celebrated" the German way with my husband. I showed him the Nikolaus-traditions. The evening before the 6th December, you have to clean your shoes or boots well and we usually put them in front of the chimney. As reward, the Nikolaus puts some small gifts into your shoes at night and in the morning you find e.g. nuts, fruits, a small chocolate santa Clause, warm socks or cookies in your shoes. (I baked some Frisian cookies for my husband, put them into a nice little bag and he really loved them).
He liked our German tradition but said to him as a Finn it feels quite odd. He was happy but didn't know how to react and interprete the meaning of it. I found it very cute. Nice to teach him such things.
By the way I (we) absolutely love Japan and the way they combine traditions with modernity is really truly fascinating.
Makes me happy that you're proud of your birth country.

T. Sonja

[Nicky24]

Just wanna say word. Because I am so pissed off with this Finnish attitude of ignoring a foreign man. I dated a Fin on website, we arranged to meet. She even proposed that she come spend weekend with me. I proposed to do same and she agreed. 2 days later, I phoned, she never replied. I mailed her no reply. I just said, if anything went wrong, I am sorry. But hey...guess what? She never replied even though I was so polite. Till today, I have not heard from her. Her phone rings all day, she just would not answer me. I truly loved her and I just could not believe I was this hurt!

I wonder why Finns will act this way to a humble and polite man like me.

I am so sad till now and even shed out tears for loosing my love opportunity.

So pissed-up!!!!!!

[Upphew]

Just wanna say word. Because I am so pissed off with this Finnish attitude of ignoring a foreign man. I dated a Fin on website, we arranged to meet. She even proposed that she come spend weekend with me. I proposed to do same and she agreed. 2 days later, I phoned, she never replied. I mailed her no reply. I just said, if anything went wrong, I am sorry. But hey...guess what? She never replied even though I was so polite. Till today, I have not heard from her. Her phone rings all day, she just would not answer me. I truly loved her and I just could not believe I was this hurt!

I wonder why Finns will act this way to a humble and polite man like me.

I am so sad till now and even shed out tears for loosing my love opportunity.

So pissed-up!!!!!!

You being polite doesn't mean she is polite. Imho you don't date on a website, you date when you go to a date, in real life. But there is a seed of truth in your experience: Finland doesn't have dating culture, if compared to USA. Dunno how we compare to others.

[Honest]

Just wanna say word. Because I am so pissed off with this Finnish attitude of ignoring a foreign man.

So pissed-up!!!!!!

I would totally disagree with your statement. You should try to get into real life instead of trying online dating. Once you have a bit of social life you will see a hell of opportunities.

[masao]

I am so sad till now and even shed out tears for loosing my love opportunity.

So pissed-up!!!!!!

A foreign man?! I thought that only a Finn uses the word "loosing" instead of "losing" because of their
own word "luuseri". A Finn also uses Golgate to brush their teeth trough and trough.
t, masao

[Oho]

Just wanna say word. Because I am so pissed off with this Finnish attitude of ignoring a foreign man.

So you got stood up, big woop, welcome to the human race. Just that you know, most Finnish are equal opportunity ignorers.

[Karhunkoski]

Super story Biscayne, really made me laugh.

[onkko]

D
I agree with your reasons. Also, I've noticed they put up their national flag much more often than we do in Germany. The like to do the traditional things that belong to each pyhäpäivä. Maybe quite many Finns are doing things the way they have been done for hundreds of years.
Another funny thing: for my husband some traditions and things are so obvious and normal (he is so used to them) that he didn't even tell me about them. Just when we walked and I asked he says: on that day or time of the year we always do so and so.......
He liked our German tradition but said to him as a Finn it feels quite odd. He was happy but didn't know how to react and interprete the meaning of it. I found it very cute. Nice to teach him such things.

So i assume you are german. We have had germans atleast since ... i dont know, since potato? (potato was brought in 1720s by german tinkerers). Why havent you brought octoberfest! That would be cultural thing i wouldnt mind of.

[onkko]

I just sometimes get the impression that some Finns (more in the country side) feel threatened by other cultures. I believe they just need to get more used to foreigenrs in such areas. e.g. in Germany, we've had foreigners for a long time and most Germans are used to them. In Finland the amount of foreigners has been increasing just during the past 20-30 years or so.

Dear porky84, you have burning ghettoes and we dont.
Please keep them, we dont want them,

feeling threatened is right when you are threatened, regards look news.

You arent part of this because you arent "actual foreigner" as said by finnish minister-

Knowing you has nothing to do with immigration from 3rd world, knowing 3rd world immigrants dont change what happens.

And as you say you are "used", im used -30c weather.