Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

[fatherchristmas]

I'll be in my late 30's when I'm eligible for citizenship so this won't apply to me but I would have gladly served 6 months. I've always wanted to get paid to get in shape and shoot some guns

[Tonttu100]

It is inportant for "new fins" to respect the "old fins" our culture and ways , but this also goes the otherway we "old fins" need to respect the "new fins"
We have to make being a Fin something to be broud of.
Being a Fin should mean whatever race or orgin you are.

1.You are equal to all Fins.
2.Other Fins help you.
3.You are let to be part of normal society.

If this will happen i bet my left nut that any "new fin" would be more than happy go in army servise and be ready to defend these values.
What this is ? , its making country strong.
Would you want to risk your life for country where some of population are rasist discriminating toot holes?.

This all can happen in positive way when we accept each other as human beings.

[Jukka Aho]

These fins, they do nothing!
 

[Tiwaz]

It is inportant for "new fins" to respect the "old fins" our culture and ways , but this also goes the otherway we "old fins" need to respect the "new fins"
We have to make being a Fin something to be broud of.
Being a Fin should mean whatever race or orgin you are.

1.You are equal to all Fins.
2.Other Fins help you.
3.You are let to be part of normal society.

If this will happen i bet my left nut that any "new fin" would be more than happy go in army servise and be ready to defend these values.
What this is ? , its making country strong.
Would you want to risk your life for country where some of population are rasist discriminating toot holes?.

This all can happen in positive way when we accept each other as human beings.

Because it is racist to expect immigrants to adjust to this society instead of demanding us natives to change our society to fit them...


If it Speaks like a Finn, if it acts like a Finn. It is Finn and should be treated like one. If it does not...
(speaks does not equal perfect but fluent Finnish for those who are about to hit the barricades)

As for acting like a Finn. I judge people in Finland based on my own, Finnish cultural context. If your behavior fall short of what is considered acceptable in it, I'll treat you like I would treat anyone else who acts in unacceptable way. I will not go out of my way to inquire what perhaps would be acceptable behavior in society where that other person came from, since we are not in that society.

Never presume that your cultural norms would work in another country.

[Tonttu100]

Tiwaz i would like to comment on your post but it was inposible to decipher ,could you please explain it to me point by point.

[Tiwaz]

Simple. In Finland, the Finnish way.

Elsewhere, the elsewhere way.

Not elsewhere way in Finland.

There is no reason to "respect" foreign cultures in Finland if they are in violation of Finnish principles and traditions. Those foreign ways should yield and be dropped.

For example. In some countries it is traditional to mutilate children after birth. In Finland it is not. Should we respect this culture in Finland? Hell no!

In some cultures it is traditional to stuck woman in potato bag and forbid them from working, studying and walking outside their house as they please. Should we respect this culture in Finland? HELL NO!

And so forth. This "we must respect their ways" is rather stupid idea. When you are in foreign country, you must respect THEIR ways, not expect them to respect YOUR ways.

[Tonttu100]

Simple. In Finland, the Finnish way.

Elsewhere, the elsewhere way.

Not elsewhere way in Finland.

There is no reason to "respect" foreign cultures in Finland if they are in violation of Finnish principles and traditions. Those foreign ways should yield and be dropped.

For example. In some countries it is traditional to mutilate children after birth. In Finland it is not. Should we respect this culture in Finland? Hell no!

In some cultures it is traditional to stuck woman in potato bag and forbid them from working, studying and walking outside their house as they please. Should we respect this culture in Finland? HELL NO!

And so forth. This "we must respect their ways" is rather stupid idea. When you are in foreign country, you must respect THEIR ways, not expect them to respect YOUR ways.

We must respect the ways of others , long as they are not against the law ("Child mutilation" etc).
The problem is not that people want to practise the culture they like. the problem is if people want force other people practise the culture they have. (both ways)

[Upphew]

We must respect the ways of others , long as they are not against the law ("Child mutilation" etc).
The problem is not that people want to practise the culture they like. the problem is if people want force other people practise the culture they have. (both ways)

Why? I thought that respect must be earned, not granted. I tolerate to some degree things that are not against the law, even some that are against (but that is not about respect or culture, just that I don't like the law(s) in question), but I will not respect them. And if someone came to me and demanded respect, that would be enough reason to lose all respect that he/she had.

Fine example: mutilation. I abhor things that people do to children in the name of religion, and I demand that circumcision for any other than medical reason to be banned (from children, adults may do with their own money and own body what they like, to a point). But I respect that little girl who was scarred in last weeks Madventures. I don't like what was done to her, but I understand why, and can see the point.

[Tonttu100]

We must respect the ways of others , long as they are not against the law ("Child mutilation" etc).
The problem is not that people want to practise the culture they like. the problem is if people want force other people practise the culture they have. (both ways)

Why? I thought that respect must be earned, not granted. I tolerate to some degree things that are not against the law, even some that are against (but that is not about respect or culture, just that I don't like the law(s) in question), but I will not respect them. And if someone came to me and demanded respect, that would be enough reason to lose all respect that he/she had.

Fine example: mutilation. I abhor things that people do to children in the name of religion, and I demand that circumcision for any other than medical reason to be banned (from children, adults may do with their own money and own body what they like, to a point). But I respect that little girl who was scarred in last weeks Madventures. I don't like what was done to her, but I understand why, and can see the point.

People seem to forget respect goes both ways.

[Tiwaz]

People seem to forget respect goes both ways.

So when are all immigrants going to start respecting that this is Finland? Not whatevercountrytheycamefrom.

Let's start with that respect.

I am not going to go out of my way to try to figure out what cultural norms person X I end up dealing with in everyday life represents. I presume that since they are in Finland, they know what is accepted and what is not in Finland and Finnish culture/society.

I do not care if whatever they do is considered polite or acceptable in their culture, if it is not in my culture in my native land.


When in Rome... Do as Romans do.

[Tonttu100]

I do not think you get it.
What you are talking to extent is totally correct but the way you are saying is just filled with so strong undercurrent that changes it to negative.
Negativity never helped anyone.

[Upphew]

People seem to forget respect goes both ways.

And people seem to forget that people respect different things.

I do not think you get it.
What you are talking to extent is totally correct but the way you are saying is just filled with so strong undercurrent that changes it to negative.
Negativity never helped anyone.

Negativity helped our species to survive: http://biopsychiatry.com/depression/negbias.html
From the article: "It takes frequent small positive experiences to tip the scales toward happiness."

[dampa]

Respect is 2-way... if you first respect yourself, then I [others] will respect you. Yes this is Finland, and it is no perfect country and no much different than every other country. Haven't you read, heard, seen those Finns who move abroad and make others in the new country act the Finnish way? They say Finns carry their culture every where they go and practise it there so don't come here and talk everyone to live the Finnish way here.

I only know that it is better for everyone to take what is good in every culture or place they live in and apply it to their everyday life. How to define what is good, is then left to everyone to individually decide. The most important thing is that we need to learn to respect eachother's way of life and culture. No culture is a perfect culture including Finland's culture.

And this is about: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

[Upphew]

Respect is 2-way... if you first respect yourself, then I [others] will respect you. Yes this is Finland, and it is no perfect country and no much different than every other country. Haven't you read, heard, seen those Finns who move abroad and make others in the new country act the Finnish way? They say Finns carry their culture every where they go and practise it there so don't come here and talk everyone to live the Finnish way here.

I have heard that in some bars in Canada/USA they forbid entry from dogs, indians and Finns. For a reason I presume. So yes finns took their ways with them and those ways conflicted with local ways...

I only know that it is better for everyone to take what is good in every culture or place they live in and apply it to their everyday life. How to define what is good, is then left to everyone to individually decide.

Agreed.

The most important thing is that we need to learn to respect eachother's way of life and culture. No culture is a perfect culture including Finland's culture.

I respect your right for your ways as far as your ways doesn't conflict with mine or induce unnecessary burden to me. I can live if your kids doesn't sing Suvivirsi or if they don't attend spring festival at that point. But GDM that is not reason for remove that hymn!

And this is about: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

Yes. Just like a any other Finn, unless you are over 30 when you gain citizenship. Read for your self: http://www.mil.fi/perustietoa/julkaisut ... _08_en.pdf

[Tonttu100]

Respect is 2-way... if you first respect yourself, then I [others] will respect you. Yes this is Finland, and it is no perfect country and no much different than every other country. Haven't you read, heard, seen those Finns who move abroad and make others in the new country act the Finnish way? They say Finns carry their culture every where they go and practise it there so don't come here and talk everyone to live the Finnish way here.

I only know that it is better for everyone to take what is good in every culture or place they live in and apply it to their everyday life. How to define what is good, is then left to everyone to individually decide. The most important thing is that we need to learn to respect eachother's way of life and culture. No culture is a perfect culture including Finland's culture.

And this is about: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

I agree 100%