Suomea ei ole vaikea kieli... or something to that extent.

[Bitsy]

4. If this and other sentences I have trouble with are so simple for everyone except me to understand and explain, then the only explanation remaining as to why Finns don't help me with them is simply that they don't want to help me out of spite, which gives me an even worse feeling than I already have.

No, I don't think this is the case. Language like that is (relatively) easy to understand if you're a hard-boiled native Finn who's accustomed to read any kind of official ministry texts (mostly spawning in ministries etc.) but as said, your average Finn -even if they speak fairly fluent everyday English- would run to the hills if he/she had to TRANSLATE that kind of sentences into English. Trust me, this is the reason for the Finns to retreat in horror.

It may be easy for enk to say - excuse her, she seems to know about a gadzillion languages back to front, including Swahili, Klingon and that peculiar lispy accent they speak on Thursdays at the Upper Volta asparagus carnival.

I'm sure those languages come in very useful.

There was one element of the sentence missed in your translation - it is that the database is updated with information during the campaign.

What makes me most angry, is that my office doesn't want me to get any better. They never send me final versions of my texts so I can see all the places I had trouble with. If I ask for the final version, they may forget to send it to me. Nor can I ask them questions any more, because I annoy them, and especially when I have asked grammar questions, the email exchanges become so unpleasant. I have one friend in Seinäjoki who helps me, but I can't bother her too much, because she is incessantly busy, and her grasp of the grammar is not very good either.

[Bitsy]

4. If this and other sentences I have trouble with are so simple for everyone except me to understand and explain, then the only explanation remaining as to why Finns don't help me with them is simply that they don't want to help me out of spite, which gives me an even worse feeling than I already have.

Edit: and oh, it seems you actually addressed me in your last point... sorry, I did not mean it that way. Only tried my hand because I thought that the example of dividing the sentence in two might have helped you in the future. Plus the fact that it DID take me some time, I definitely did not write the sentence in a minute or two. Please do not be offended

No, that wasn't for you. You actually posted your message just as I was finishing up mine

This is getting like instant messaging - too fast! Hopefully I can post this and log off before anyone posts again.

[sammy]

There was one element of the sentence missed in your translation - it is that the database is updated with information during the campaign.

Bugger - I thought it would have sufficed to say that the database is created during the campaign - but it's not exactly the same, now that you mention it. (You see? Not that easy after all...)

Where do you get this kind of texts from? They do seem to be well advanced in the ancient art of "kapulakieli"...

[Hank W.]

The database updates during the campaign... I had to read it 3 times before I found what is the idea they're trying to convey. Seriously, people who write like that ought to be banned from publishing anything

[Bitsy]

There was one element of the sentence missed in your translation - it is that the database is updated with information during the campaign.

Bugger - I thought it would have sufficed to say that the database is created during the campaign - but it's not exactly the same, now that you mention it. (You see? Not that easy after all...)

Where do you get this kind of texts from? They do seem to be well advanced in the ancient art of "kapulakieli"...

I didn't log off fast enough

I don't know, only my office knows. I just do what they send me. Thank goodness very few are like that. The proofreader, who is American and fluent in Finnish, also thought that whole text was very difficult. That is why I found the first response to that sentence unnecessarily harsh.

I currently have a brochure about Rauma which is very nicely written .

[Hank W.]

I currently have a brochure about Rauma which is very nicely written .

You're so lucky its not written in the local vernacular.
Raumall om bali semssi asjoi ko luulis kränittävän doinen doissias vasta. Esimerkiks Raumall ja eritotte raumlaiste nokas tundu semne fabriikk ko värkkä selluloossa. Sitt o semssi kauhjoi fabriikei ko värkkäväp paperi. Tämse nykyaikkasen deolisude rinnall Raumall o vanh puutalokaupung Vanha Rauma. Tämä vanh Raum elä ja toimi luanikkast ja ihmsek ko siäll asuvap piänis taloisas ovat tytyväissi ainakki sillon gon duul ei puhall selluloosafabriiki suunnalt.

[enk]

I don't know, only my office knows. I just do what they send me. Thank goodness very few are like that. The proofreader, who is American and fluent in Finnish, also thought that whole text was very difficult. That is why I found the first response to that sentence unnecessarily harsh.

It wasn't meant to be harsh. I'm and was surprised because that's the
crap I have to translate every day and it is completely possible to get
used to it. To the point where I can't write a decent sentence in Finnish
without trying to use osalta, toimesta, kannalta, etc.
That, of course, means I can translate bureaucratic garbage even into
Finnish no prob, but passages from books are beyond my translation
skills.

Each person has texts they can't stand, my fav of the year is a text
written by a native Swedish speaker in Tornionlaakso Finnish .
That was a royal pain in the behind to translate!

-enk

[sammy]

it is completely possible to get used to it. To the point where I can't write a decent sentence in Finnish without trying to use osalta, toimesta, kannalta, etc.

...as, for example, in this little translation exercise

Finnish:
Yhtiön johdon toimesta ilmoitamme, että johdon taholta on ollut havaittavissa teidän tahollenne kohdistuvia henkilöstönvähentämispaineita

English:
You're fired.

[sinikala]

Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö seuraa myös kampanjan aikana täydentyvästä tietokannasta esille tulevia toisiaan vahvistavia viestejä esim. koulutustarpeista, joihin voidaan reagoida suhteellisen nopeasti ja huomioida heti ainakin koulutussuunnittelussa.

Not aware of the original context, I'd translate somewhat like as follows

The person responsible for the campaign should also single out messages with recurring themes from the database created during the campaign. These messages may include information on e.g. educational needs that can be reacted to within a reasonable time, and which can be immediately taken into account, at least in the planning of education.

There is something very wrong when the English version is a full line longer than the Finnish version.

Finnish:
Yhtiön johdon toimesta ilmoitamme, että johdon taholta on ollut havaittavissa teidän tahollenne kohdistuvia henkilöstönvähentämispaineita

English:
You're fired.

Normal service has resumed.

[Mark I.]

Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö seuraa myös kampanjan aikana täydentyvästä tietokannasta esille tulevia toisiaan vahvistavia viestejä esim. koulutustarpeista, joihin voidaan reagoida suhteellisen nopeasti ja huomioida heti ainakin koulutussuunnittelussa.

Not aware of the original context, I'd translate somewhat like as follows

The person responsible for the campaign should also single out messages with recurring themes from the database created during the campaign. These messages may include information on e.g. educational needs that can be reacted to within a reasonable time, and which can be immediately taken into account, at least in the planning of education.

There is something very wrong when the English version is a full line longer than the Finnish version.

Why do you think so? For example "Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö" translated is "The person responsible for the campaign"; Finnish is synthetic language, which really makes it shorter in that kind of cases.

[sammy]

Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö seuraa myös kampanjan aikana täydentyvästä tietokannasta esille tulevia toisiaan vahvistavia viestejä esim. koulutustarpeista, joihin voidaan reagoida suhteellisen nopeasti ja huomioida heti ainakin koulutussuunnittelussa.

Not aware of the original context, I'd translate somewhat like as follows

The person responsible for the campaign should also single out messages with recurring themes from the database created during the campaign. These messages may include information on e.g. educational needs that can be reacted to within a reasonable time, and which can be immediately taken into account, at least in the planning of education.

There is something very wrong when the English version is a full line longer than the Finnish version.

Why do you think so? For example "Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö" translated is "The person responsible for the campaign"; Finnish is synthetic language, which really makes it shorter in that kind of cases.

Yes, but then again the Jeeves factor was present in my first translation

[sammy]

Finnish is synthetic language

When it comes to bureaucratitis-inflicted texts like the one provided by Bitsy, Finnish is also an idiotic language occasionally (see above, or Google, for "osaamisklusteri agendalle" - although that's a parody, it's a great one)

edit: I presume that bureaucratic texts can be as bad in any given language...

[trentti]

edit: I presume that bureaucratic texts can be as bad in any given language...

That and anything written by a business analyst, IT architect, technical analyst etc. They make my head explode with frustration.

[Timbeh]

Finnish is synthetic language

I always thought that a synthetic language meant something like Quenya or Sindarin.

[sinikala]

Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö seuraa myös kampanjan aikana täydentyvästä tietokannasta esille tulevia toisiaan vahvistavia viestejä esim. koulutustarpeista, joihin voidaan reagoida suhteellisen nopeasti ja huomioida heti ainakin koulutussuunnittelussa.

Not aware of the original context, I'd translate somewhat like as follows

The person responsible for the campaign should also single out messages with recurring themes from the database created during the campaign. These messages may include information on e.g. educational needs that can be reacted to within a reasonable time, and which can be immediately taken into account, at least in the planning of education.

There is something very wrong when the English version is a full line longer than the Finnish version.

Why do you think so? For example "Kampanjan vastuuhenkilö" translated is "The person responsible for the campaign"; Finnish is synthetic language, which really makes it shorter in that kind of cases.

Surely "campaign manager" is the correct term?

Just a generalisation... in my limited experience, it is a rare case when the Finnish version of a text, any text, will be shorter than the English.