returnee-- cost of living

[SaxonManFinland]

I guess that it is Hank...not Heck ..err Henk..
One better advice followed than finding out that the reality really bites too bad here..
OTOH, you can travel here for vacation to enjoy the brightness during the summers and the snow during winters..

YEP YEP YEP YEP

I just spent such a simple PERFECT Weekend. Fishing on a lake 20 mins away, Wilderness. Warm and raining. Birds calling, BBQ at lake edge then sitting about with my mate in and out of Sauna. Yesterday in the garden.Beautiful, fun and clean air. Went to another lake for an hour. Just walking with wife and daughter. Quick ice cream, Perry for wife, then home. Friends came round unexpected, brought ice cream. We sat outside 22C untill 9pm. PERFECT PERFECT PERFECT.

Today got 2 letters. Tax. Please pay X thousand Euro within 14 days for money YOU MAY EARN this year. VAT Please fill in following 7 pages and pay X € you should/may charge in next X Months. Local Paper arrives.
Parents of 10 to 18 year olds form Action group for alchohol abuse. Police report 60% of 10 to 12 YO are drinking. They claim it is "Normal" for parents to leave 10 to 16 YO at home alone many weekends whilst they go to summer cottage to RELAX. Ploice claim they are called to many APARTMENTS and find up to 10 kids (10 to 14 YO) drunk and the parenst are away. Action group say they will NOT report Kids they find drunk in local parks etc UNLESS they are Ill or Unconsciouse. THEN either ambulance or Special Place of safe refuge. PARENTS WILL NOT BE INFORMED. 60% of local kids 14 to 16 interviewed admitted being Totally Pissed and incapable at least 2 times a month and 10% admitted being drunk at School.

So The beauty of Finland as a Holiday heaven is matched by the Horror of reallity with young Kids drinking in this Drink / Drug Culture that exists in South East.

If you want out of SA (like most of my family did) then English Speaking countries and certain Anglofied areas of Europe will be a lot less of a culture shock and give you some hope for the future, especially for a 15 YO.

[kay30]

You really think kids in America, the UK, Ireland, etc are drinking less than in Finland? Please.

Every kid I knew growing up had a party the minute their parents went away (myself included). And most of the time those parties contained substances far worse than alcohol. And I can safely say, almost all of them got drunk every night during school vacation/summer vacation. Maybe I had a unique experience, but somehow I don't think so. Yes, alcohol abuse among pre-teens/teenagers is a problem, but it is certainly not limited to Finland.

[Hank W.]

Yeah, they drink less, they smoke weed like chimneys tho.

[kay30]

That's true actually. I feel like drug use is much higher in the US than here. Probably because of easier access.

[enk]

You really think kids in America, the UK, Ireland, etc are drinking less than in Finland? Please.

Every kid I knew growing up had a party the minute their parents went away (myself included). And most of the time those parties contained substances far worse than alcohol. And I can safely say, almost all of them got drunk every night during school vacation/summer vacation. Maybe I had a unique experience, but somehow I don't think so. Yes, alcohol abuse among pre-teens/teenagers is a problem, but it is certainly not limited to Finland.

Booze, coke and assorted pills were the "beverages" of choice in the
yuppy area I grew up in. One of the main reasons I couldn't be bothered
to go to the parties, the other being I didn't really care who had screwed
whom in the bathroom/pool/bedroom at the parties.

-enk

[EP]

Teenage binge drinking has gone down in the last couple of years in Finland. It is no longer "cool".

I don´t know. I raised two kids in the capital area, and surely there is more drinking – and above all, drugs – here than elsewhere in the country. Yet now there are two decent, healthy young adults (who drink way less than I do). The foundations are built way earlier than at teenage. But I admit, I was a strict parent and they could not walk all over me. Sure I was yelled at, the doors were banging, I was "hated", but I was a parent and they were at my "mercy".

And yes, they sometimes came home from parties a bit tipsy, and the boy even nurtured a marijuana plant in his room at some point. He went interailing and gave me instructions how to take care of it while he is gone. Unfortunately it was a dry summer and I forgot to wet the plant.

[kay30]

Booze, coke and assorted pills were the "beverages" of choice in the yuppy area I grew up in.

-enk

Totally. How many of those cheerleader types ended up in rehab for a coke addiction at age 16 in your high school? I lost count after the 10th or so.

I definitely had my years of bad teenage drinking behavior. But today, I almost never touch the stuff. I have to say what my parents did/said/wanted had no effect on me. It was just a choice I made personally at some point and there were really no other influences but me.

[Rosamunda]

Unfortunately it was a dry summer and I forgot to wet the plant.

At least that is what you told him right?

[EP]

Nope, I really forgot, and the plant was in direct sunlight. I didn´t really object when it came to the house. I just thought that if having that modest little weed makes him feel somehow "in" (he was somewhat nerdy at that point), I´ll let him have it. I also saw that it would take ten years before it has enough leaves for one joint.

A couple of years later he openly told me about his experiences in Amsterdam. I was happy to hear that he had felt extremely sick, had thrown up massively, and came to a conclusion that it doesn´t suit him at all. "Never again".

[SaxonManFinland]

Notice ANYTHING HERE ???

Quote's

The foundations are built way earlier than at teenage. But I admit, I was a strict parent and they could not walk all over me. Sure I was yelled at, the doors were banging, I was "hated", but I was a parent and they were at my "mercy".

Police report 60% of 10 to 12 YO are drinking. They claim it is "Normal" for parents to leave 10 to 16 YO at home alone many weekends whilst they go to summer cottage to RELAX. Ploice claim they are called to many APARTMENTS and find up to 10 kids (10 to 14 YO) drunk and the parenst are away.

Drinking in Europe West , US and else where is an issue (I have 2 kids who are now 23 and 26 so been there etc) HOWEVER leaving 10 to 16 YO EVER, worse on a regular basis IS A CRIME in UK, a real crime in law and though it happens amongst the trash EVEYWHERE it does seem quite common here. Maybe a false sense of "Safety" but who would leave a 12 YO alone ALL Weekend. Reading rest of newspaper article just makes one feel worse. YET my friend has two lovely girls 18 and 16. NEVER an issue with either of these girls, but then he seldom lets them out of his sight never mind alone overnight. It is unthinkable to me.

[kay30]

YET my friend has two lovely girls 18 and 16. NEVER an issue with either of these girls, but then he seldom lets them out of his sight never mind alone overnight. It is unthinkable to me.

So what happens when they move out of their parents house and are alone in the world for the first time? Do they still "obey" their parents? Or do they start to experiment out of curiosity as most young people do? Now, which is the "safer" place for experimenting... in a parents home when there is always someone there to take care of you, or while living on your own?

Not saying young people should experiment, but I've also seen what happens when an 18 year old moves out of a strict household for the first time. Talk about binge drinking.

[enk]

Totally. How many of those cheerleader types ended up in rehab for a coke addiction at age 16 in your high school? I lost count after the 10th or so.

All the ones that don't make it into AM's cheerleader pics?

I definitely had my years of bad teenage drinking behavior. But today, I almost never touch the stuff. I have to say what my parents did/said/wanted had no effect on me. It was just a choice I made personally at some point and there were really no other influences but me.

I never had to worry about it because a 1) strict Catholic mother, 2)
competitive sports and 3) working to help my family out made sure that
I didn't do too much stupid and then at some point in time, I became the designated "get the rest of them home" person, so I never developed a
taste for any of the stuff.

-enk

[Rosamunda]

Funny coincidence I just had a long chat with the school councellor at my son's school about this. We had a bit-of-an-issue at the weekend and as I had been accused of "over-reacting, being out of touch, everyone else does it" I wanted a second opinion. It was an interesting chat but I think I did most of the talking (ranting?) and didn't get any answers.

What really gob-smacked me is that when I emailed the class distribution list (28 families) on Saturday morning (along the lines of: anyone know anything about last night's party) I didn't get a single reply until this morning and even now only 5 parents have sent me replies. The parent(s) of the girl who held the party have not replied. Maybe they are still at the mökki But yes, my son was at an all night party, the parents of the girl who hosted the event were not there. The boys had told their parents they were going to sleepover at our (my) house. Not one parent called me to check. The kids in question are 14-15 years.

So now I have initiated a phone list so that Participating Parents have an up to date list of contact numbers. When school goes back in August I am going to attempt to draw up some kind of multilateral mini-treaty that hopefully some of the parents will sign up to. Just breaking down some barriers so that we all get into the habit of phoning each other and keeping an eye on each other's kids. Of course I want them to party and have fun, meet girls... but 14 yrs is way too young to be at a totally unsupervised venue, getting too drunk to come home.

Most parents I have spoken too share my thoughts and fears of underage drinking. They are maybe more trusting and believing than I am though. And maybe they don't interrogate their kids like I do. But I don't think they are all fatalistic about binge drinking.

And mobile phones have given us all a false sense of security (BTW, I just found out they have an on/off switch ).

It is a crying shame the govt doesn't do more. How many shopkeepers get jailed (or even fined) for selling beer to under 18s....? What if we ALL had to show our ID when we buy booze? I don't have a problem with that.

[enk]

It is a crying shame the govt doesn't do more. How many shopkeepers get jailed (or even fined) for selling beer to under 18s....? What if we ALL had to show our ID when we buy booze? I don't have a problem with that.

It might not be that they were selling it. The kids could have found their
parents' stash and went through that. That's at least what the kids I was
talking about in my previous posts did. It's also how they got ahold of
coke and pills, too. Nice, eh?

Hopefully at least some of the other parents get a clue.

-enk

[Jukka Aho]

It is a crying shame the govt doesn't do more. How many shopkeepers get jailed (or even fined) for selling beer to under 18s....?

Just last week, several supermarkets in the Southern Ostrobothnia region got caught selling beer and cider to minors. As a penalty, they were issued a temporary ban on sales of all alcoholic beverages. (The duration of this ban was one week, I think.)

Back in my day, there was this small, isolated village shop – not exactly in the neighborhood where I lived, but not too far away, either – where customers (minors or adults, didn’t matter) could buy beer even in the wee hours on weekends... you just went around the house and knocked on the back door. (The shopkeeper lived upstairs and would let you in the shop via the back door, dimmed lights and all.) :D