I want to move to Finland for the Adult Education..

[Pursuivant]

But can you catch the hippie in New England? I've heard of Woodstock but still California got the most granolas?

[tuulen]

But can you catch the hippie in New England? I've heard of Woodstock but still California got the most granolas?

Well, it appears that this thread indeed has returned to topic, of Adult Education.

[Upphew]

I like dogs, I don't have one, and I won't have a chance to visit Finland for perhaps a few years, which would give me enough time to raise a puppy, and train it. I understand that it is illegal to carry firearms in Finland except for licensed hunters, but a dog could be put on a leash. BTW, there are some places in Lapland and in eastern Finland that I would like to see, too, and apparently some of these areas are known to have bears.

I'd change that bold part to: but a dog should be on a leash. And to keep my post somewhat on topic: even "perfectly" trained dogs must be kept on a leash when they are not in rural area, thus sayeth the law of the land (unless dog is hunting, police/guide dog, in dog park, in a fenced yard etc.). And yes, many dog owners think that their dog poops gold so no need to pick it up or that their little GS is so tame that there is no need to use leash... There should be some kind of adult education for pet owners...

[tuulen]

I like dogs, I don't have one, and I won't have a chance to visit Finland for perhaps a few years, which would give me enough time to raise a puppy, and train it. I understand that it is illegal to carry firearms in Finland except for licensed hunters, but a dog could be put on a leash. BTW, there are some places in Lapland and in eastern Finland that I would like to see, too, and apparently some of these areas are known to have bears.

I'd change that bold part to: but a dog should be on a leash. And to keep my post somewhat on topic: even "perfectly" trained dogs must be kept on a leash when they are not in rural area, thus sayeth the law of the land (unless dog is hunting, police/guide dog, in dog park, in a fenced yard etc.). And yes, many dog owners think that their dog poops gold so no need to pick it up or that their little GS is so tame that there is no need to use leash... There should be some kind of adult education for pet owners...

Yes, I understand what you have said, Upphew, ja kiitos.

When I was a child, I was raised with a dog, a collie, and in my adult life I have enjoyed two other dogs.

So, I am aware of a dog's habits, and I understand the need for a leash, to control a dog.

[Pursuivant]

When I was a child, I was raised with a dog,

Do you still mark the lamp-posts?

[tuulen]

When I was a child, I was raised with a dog,

Do you still mark the lamp-posts?

lol

I like you, as a friend.

[Upphew]

Do you still mark the lamp-posts?

I like you, as a friend.

Good, P is too big to be liked as a snack.

[tuulen]

Good, P is too big to be liked as a snack.

Honestly, I'm beginning to like this place, Finland Forum, and it's my pleasure to meet all of you.

It's also true that I am interested in learning more about the Finnish language, and for that I will need your help, please.

Oh, I already have an armload of books, but there are many things which books simply do not say.

[tuulen]

I like dogs, I don't have one, and I won't have a chance to visit Finland for perhaps a few years, which would give me enough time to raise a puppy, and train it. I understand that it is illegal to carry firearms in Finland except for licensed hunters, but a dog could be put on a leash. BTW, there are some places in Lapland and in eastern Finland that I would like to see, too, and apparently some of these areas are known to have bears.

I'd change that bold part to: but a dog should be on a leash. And to keep my post somewhat on topic: even "perfectly" trained dogs must be kept on a leash when they are not in rural area, thus sayeth the law of the land (unless dog is hunting, police/guide dog, in dog park, in a fenced yard etc.). And yes, many dog owners think that their dog poops gold so no need to pick it up or that their little GS is so tame that there is no need to use leash... There should be some kind of adult education for pet owners...

Let me return to this topic, about dogs, and update some of what I have since discovered. I mentioned that I am interested in visiting parts of Finland which are remote and are known to have bears, that Finland already has dogs which are able to scare bears away, and that I am familiar with dogs and like them, too. BTW, in Finland these dogs are known as Karjalankarhukoira, but in North America they are known as KBD, or Karelian Bear Dog.

As the short story, it appears that this kind of dog and I could be a good match to each other. For instance, I live in a rural area, I spend time outdoors, I could erect a very large fenced-in area for such a dog, I could occasionally let the dog loose, to hunt, and, most importantly, I could spend a lot of time with such a dog, every day. Apparently these are important considerations for this kind of dog, and so far, so good.

However, when it comes to finding the RIGHT dog, a dog which WILL scare bears away, the story then becomes much more complicated, especially outside of Finland. So, let me just leave it at that, unless somebody could care to read an otherwise very long post.

:-)

[onkko]

... I mentioned that I am interested in visiting parts of Finland which are remote and are known to have bears, that Finland already has dogs which are able to scare bears away...

You need just make noise to scare bears. Get a bell or just sign or something.
- Bears are more scared about you than you are on them.
- They attack humans only on self defence.
- They flee if they hear/see/smell you soon enough.
- any bear who is used to humans is either shot or moved really really far away from humans. Only mild cases are moved, others are shot.
- Bears are hunted so they know that humans are threat, they arent stupid.
- Those dogs arent for scare bears, they are for hunting bears.

Only recent (under 100y old) fatality due bear attack was 1998 jogger who ran between motherbear and puppies. Bear hit him once and by bad luck he got air on his bloodstream and died by that. Bear did that just to protect her puppies and it didnt eat, bite or shred victim just hit once. Bears dont eat humans in here.

Last year i talked to old man from bear area who have hunted birds and collected berries since he was kid, he said he probably once saw a bear from far away. He had saw lot of tracks tho.

Just remember to make noise and by finnish belief do not say karhu in woods because it calls it

You are more safe in woods than in car.

[tuulen]

...Just remember to make noise and by finnish belief do not say karhu in woods because it calls it ...

Kiitokseni sinulle, onkko.

In the US, especially in the western US, there are many big bears, and they are known to be sometimes very dangerous.

So, that is why I see bears in Finland to be possibly dangerous, too.

Again, many of the places in Finland that I would like to visit apparently do have bears, in Lapland and in eastern Finland.

Also, I have heard that in Finland a bear could be known by many names, but not by karhu.

Kiitoksia paljon!

[Tiwaz]

Let me return to this topic, about dogs, and update some of what I have since discovered. I mentioned that I am interested in visiting parts of Finland which are remote and are known to have bears, that Finland already has dogs which are able to scare bears away, and that I am familiar with dogs and like them, too. BTW, in Finland these dogs are known as Karjalankarhukoira, but in North America they are known as KBD, or Karelian Bear Dog.

As the short story, it appears that this kind of dog and I could be a good match to each other. For instance, I live in a rural area, I spend time outdoors, I could erect a very large fenced-in area for such a dog, I could occasionally let the dog loose, to hunt, and, most importantly, I could spend a lot of time with such a dog, every day. Apparently these are important considerations for this kind of dog, and so far, so good.

However, when it comes to finding the RIGHT dog, a dog which WILL scare bears away, the story then becomes much more complicated, especially outside of Finland. So, let me just leave it at that, unless somebody could care to read an otherwise very long post.

Well, as said those dogs are used to hunt bears. They do not scare the bear away, they tie it up.
In very much same way as dogs used to hunt moose over here are used. Dog finds the target, goes up close to it and barks like mad. Keeps bear or moose fixed on the dog. On bears, this could mean that if bear tries to leave dog tries to stop it by grabbing bear by it's tail. That, in my opinion, qualifies this breed to "Balls of Solid Titanium"-grade.

And to do that with animal which is easily 10-20 times bigger than you requires huge, huge ego and attitude.
Which means that Karjalankarhukoira is going to be a bitch to train. I do not know how familiar you are with dogs, but I would never recommend it to anyone who is not experienced on training dogs.

Getting the training and social actions wrong would result in a dog which is very mean, very strong, intelligent and mean. And I mean MEAN. My mothers family had one of those dogs and it's training was not done properly. So it was doomed to lonely life away from immediate vicinity of yard and kids were told to not go anywhere near it.
Pity the dog. Fault was on the owners.

Overall they should not be hostile towards humans but other dogs beware.

On positive side, all Finnish dog breeds are very healthy. Hunting purposes tend to weed out unhealthy preferences which could be found on some breeds.


As for many names for karhu. This has little bit of superstition behind it. It was believed that naming the bear by it's name would be... Well, calling it. So instead lots of ways to refer to it were used to prevent bears from coming to your household.

[AldenG]

Karjalankarhukoira is going to be a bitch to train.

That is an indisputable fact -- half of them, at least.

[Pursuivant]

I'd be more worried of some dildo having an unleashed bear dog than a bear, actually.

[tuulen]

Well, as said those dogs are used to hunt bears. They do not scare the bear away, they tie it up.
In very much same way as dogs used to hunt moose over here are used. Dog finds the target, goes up close to it and barks like mad. Keeps bear or moose fixed on the dog. On bears, this could mean that if bear tries to leave dog tries to stop it by grabbing bear by it's tail. That, in my opinion, qualifies this breed to "Balls of Solid Titanium"-grade.

And to do that with animal which is easily 10-20 times bigger than you requires huge, huge ego and attitude.
Which means that Karjalankarhukoira is going to be a bitch to train. I do not know how familiar you are with dogs, but I would never recommend it to anyone who is not experienced on training dogs.

Getting the training and social actions wrong would result in a dog which is very mean, very strong, intelligent and mean. And I mean MEAN. My mothers family had one of those dogs and it's training was not done properly. So it was doomed to lonely life away from immediate vicinity of yard and kids were told to not go anywhere near it.
Pity the dog. Fault was on the owners.

Overall they should not be hostile towards humans but other dogs beware.

On positive side, all Finnish dog breeds are very healthy. Hunting purposes tend to weed out unhealthy preferences which could be found on some breeds.


As for many names for karhu. This has little bit of superstition behind it. It was believed that naming the bear by it's name would be... Well, calling it. So instead lots of ways to refer to it were used to prevent bears from coming to your household.

Thank you, for you have said much, and I will return, here, after some thought, kiitos.