Haaga-Helia

[AldenG]

The last time I worked with .NET I found it to be full of exceptions and special cases. This was particularly true when trying to work with device contexts. There were things the documentation led you to believe would work that just didn't. (I'm talking about 3-4 years ago, now.) And I had plenty of Windows SDK experience.

When .NET first came out, it was a transparent attempt to be a "we one-upped Java" product but it really wasn't better at all. It was an expansive set of documentation (which often missed the point of the feature it was describing) with MS programmers scrambling to make the product catch up to the documentation over several years. To a large extent it was lipstick and spackle slapped onto an old, creaking code-base. And it encysted many of the same old limitations and bugs (or clumsy implementations) we were all tired of from that code-base.

Java may at times be over-thought and over-abstracted, but it mostly does what it's supposed to do. If you need to change a behavior and you're willing to dig into the right way to do that, then you can do it. You may roll your eyes at the lengths you have to go to, but you won't run into some nasty kludge or shortcut in the system blocking you at the last moment. It's elegant that way even if it approaches some things with overkill.

Microsoft products have always been excellent at forcing you to do something the way someone else thought you should do it and have usually been sneaky about injecting dependencies on non-standard and proprietary Microsoft functions. I can see that if businesses want Microsoft programmers, schools like HH have to supply them. I'm just surprised that .NET could gain much foothold in a country that has produced so many excellent programmers.

I wouldn't terribly mind using a .NET language for vanilla business applications, and I understand well that that's what HH mostly needs to teach people to do. I'd never use it again for building any kind of application framework or complicated library, though. It looked promising but then it failed to keep its promises. It made me become allergic to special cases and work-arounds.

And I don't see a lot of point to teaching C#. That's just pretending you're programming in C when you're really programming in Visual Basic.

[Pursuivant]

[Pursuivant]

If you spend 3 years at Helia designing and coding .NET web applications with SQL server (or whatever they use thesedays. I'm guessing) You should still be able to switch to a Java/Nix/Weblogic/Oracle platform in the workplace.

Yeah, develop on MS and a SQL server and then run on a nix with db2.... motherf* javacoders

[irnbru]

The last time I worked with .NET I found it to be full of exceptions and special cases. This was particularly true when trying to work with device contexts. There were things the documentation led you to believe would work that just didn't. (I'm talking about 3-4 years ago, now.) And I had plenty of Windows SDK experience.

When .NET first came out, it was a transparent attempt to be a "we one-upped Java" product but it really wasn't better at all. It was an expansive set of documentation (which often missed the point of the feature it was describing) with MS programmers scrambling to make the product catch up to the documentation over several years. To a large extent it was lipstick and spackle slapped onto an old, creaking code-base. And it encysted many of the same old limitations and bugs (or clumsy implementations) we were all tired of from that code-base.

Java may at times be over-thought and over-abstracted, but it mostly does what it's supposed to do. If you need to change a behavior and you're willing to dig into the right way to do that, then you can do it. You may roll your eyes at the lengths you have to go to, but you won't run into some nasty kludge or shortcut in the system blocking you at the last moment. It's elegant that way even if it approaches some things with overkill.

Microsoft products have always been excellent at forcing you to do something the way someone else thought you should do it and have usually been sneaky about injecting dependencies on non-standard and proprietary Microsoft functions. I can see that if businesses want Microsoft programmers, schools like HH have to supply them. I'm just surprised that .NET could gain much foothold in a country that has produced so many excellent programmers.

I wouldn't terribly mind using a .NET language for vanilla business applications, and I understand well that that's what HH mostly needs to teach people to do. I'd never use it again for building any kind of application framework or complicated library, though. It looked promising but then it failed to keep its promises. It made me become allergic to special cases and work-arounds.

And I don't see a lot of point to teaching C#. That's just pretending you're programming in C when you're really programming in Visual Basic.

You're preaching to the converted here. I'm a trained java programmer. When I said .NET is picking up I didn't mean it's well used in Finland, I have no evidence but It seems to me most server software developed in Finland uses nix.

.NET is gaining in popularity though especially for mobile apps, Helia probably has a deal with Microsoft (they're big on that sort of thing).

Regarding C# pretending to program in C when your really programming in VB, I think C# is nothing like C apart from the name. It's should be called Windows Java IMO (If they could get away with it). VB.NET and C#.NET are basically the same thing now.

Anyway my point is what OS and programming language you use really isn't important in helia. They all have their pros and cons and in the real world you will hopefully use the best tools for the job. What you need to learn at that level is to be able to design and implement a good solution regardless of the platform they make you use.

[mariusc]

Hi guys.
Since i see or think that some of you are students in Haaga, is there any one that might kn ow when they will post the results for tuesday's BIT entrance exam. No one in there seemed to know a specific date. Sent them an email, but didn't get an answer yet. They must be reading the papers.
Also did i do my research correct: do the studies begin on the 24th of august ?
Thanks a lot, and have a good day.

LE: Never mind. I got in, just got the acceptance email. cheers !!!

[raamv]

Yes pursuviants been a perpetual student of Hell!! ia !!