Splitting up child involved

[QUINCY]

Hi Dutchguy, i think you are absolutely taking the right steps towards this situation, avoid taking a legal action since her parents are having some sort of support for you rather the money for legal fees open a bank account for Lilian and save towards her growing up. As water finds its level, Lilian will surely find you as her father as she keeps growing up.

[dutchguy]

Thank you all so much for the advice and support given, I can't begin to tell how much I appreciate this, naturally it is very hard to live apart from my daughter, but I hope it will get easier with time.

So things changed again, the mother suddenly send me a text out of the blue apologizing for all the things she said and did and asked if I could forgive her. I told her I could, and that I do still love her, but that I don't see any future together (as this type of situation keeps happening over and over), at least she hopes we could be friends in the future, and is now willing to show me my daughter on skype again and even invited me to my daughters birthday! I have decided now that I will focus all my attention on my daughter, while trying to keep things civil with my ex, it's hard to talk with her given that I still have feelings for her, but I know this roller coaster of hate/love is the main reason for my depression and not a good situation for my daughter, therefore I have to give up on my ex and focus on my daughter. I think I will speak English with my daughter, as she is more likely to learn English than Dutch, since I don't get to talk to her enough, for her to learn Dutch.

[Mölkky-Fan]

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that she is manic or polar or anything, remember you are hearing from one side of the argument. There would be many people locked up if doctors and psychiatrists listened always to what the other person in a break up said.

The girl has gone through a relationship where the man cannot commit to a relationship (but still hangs in there saying he loves her, but that he foresees trouble if they stay together), but still he felt it a good idea to father a child with her, but not to move out of his parent's home. She has little money, get's f all from the father and I am not surprised that she is angry.

I don't see it... too many loose terms thrown around... seems to me he is trying to convince himself and us too much.

[Mölkky-Fan]

I only read 'finger up nose'... 'tongue in cheek' looks a little too gay for me!

[Rip]

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that she is manic or polar or anything, remember you are hearing from one side of the argument. There would be many people locked up if doctors and psychiatrists listened always to what the other person in a break up said.

The girl has gone through a relationship where the man cannot commit to a relationship (but still hangs in there saying he loves her, but that he foresees trouble if they stay together).

If we take his word for it the trouble is not potentially foreseeable in the future but also very much what you can see in the present and past. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46142&p=386881#p386881

Obviously we have only one side of the argument but so what? This is no jury, or even city child-welfare office. If his description of the situation is not reasonably fair the only consequence is that any hints and tips he might get are of less use that what they might have been. Nobody else is going to suffer because of that.

[Mölkky-Fan]

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that she is manic or polar or anything, remember you are hearing from one side of the argument. There would be many people locked up if doctors and psychiatrists listened always to what the other person in a break up said.

The girl has gone through a relationship where the man cannot commit to a relationship (but still hangs in there saying he loves her, but that he foresees trouble if they stay together).

If we take his word for it the trouble is not potentially foreseeable in the future but also very much what you can see in the present and past. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46142&p=386881#p386881

Obviously we have only one side of the argument but so what? This is no jury, or even city child-welfare office. If his description of the situation is not reasonably fair the only consequence is that any hints and tips he might get are of less use that what they might have been. Nobody else is going to suffer because of that.

Yes.. um... right... but my point was that we should not jump to the conclusion that his ex is bi-polar or manic depressive based on what he said in his post, many of his previous posts point to why his ex might be acting strange... Cory's post was not clearly tongue in cheek, so I pointed it out (now I understand Cory was not being serious). If you are not for a two sided discussion then I will change my post to agree with everything he says and provide oodles of sympathy for him

[QUINCY]

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that she is manic or polar or anything, remember you are hearing from one side of the argument. There would be many people locked up if doctors and psychiatrists listened always to what the other person in a break up said.

The girl has gone through a relationship where the man cannot commit to a relationship (but still hangs in there saying he loves her, but that he foresees trouble if they stay together).

If we take his word for it the trouble is not potentially foreseeable in the future but also very much what you can see in the present and past. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46142&p=386881#p386881

Obviously we have only one side of the argument but so what? This is no jury, or even city child-welfare office. If his description of the situation is not reasonably fair the only consequence is that any hints and tips he might get are of less use that what they might have been. Nobody else is going to suffer because of that.

Yes.. um... right... but my point was that we should not jump to the conclusion that his ex is bi-polar or manic depressive based on what he said in his post, many of his previous posts point to why his ex might be acting strange... Cory's post was not clearly tongue in cheek, so I pointed it out (now I understand Cory was not being serious). If you are not for a two sided discussion then I will change my post to agree with everything he says and provide oodles of sympathy for him

Whether we heard either one side of the story or both sides, manic or bi-polar ex wife, is it too much to grant him time to see or visit the child he had with her if he is not of a questionable character? what is the too much dramas when there is split in the family, the both parties should agree on the natural things like allowing the child having time with both parents and stop hoarding the love that the child should have while growing up.

[Mölkky-Fan]

I agree 100% Kids come first, whatever the problems between the parents.

[Rob A.]

....It's all about the children.

Yeah...and the kids know it!!!...

[zujicgse]

Don't make the same mistake that many people make, and which is getting back together with someone because of the BABY and not because the two have solved their difference and believe that they LOVE one another as Before and they want to be together again. For the money issue i recommend choosing to pay the minimum as lower as it can be then you can pay more ONLY if you feel to do so not because you signed the agreement to pay such amount, Good luck.

[dutchguy]

Hi all, I haven't checked this forum in a while. Thanks again for the advice so far. As for the person saying the story is one sided, of course it is, there is my story, her story and then there's the truth. That's how things always go in life.
I can however state the facts and the way I see things.

Since I last posted things have been bouncing around, first she is all happy and let's me see my daughter on skype and says she wants to put her on an english kindergarden etc, which I think would be great, but then 3 days later she says how much she hates me and that she doesn't think she should put the effort to show lilian (our daughter) to me on skype. She has moved on her own to an apartment in Helsinki together with Lilian, as she didn't want to live with her parrents anymore, her budget is really tight as a result of this, which is very difficult for her. I told her that I understand it that she hates me, but that showing lilian to me on skype is not doing something nice for me, but is actually doing the best for lilian. Every psychology book / site you read says the same that it's important for a child to have a good relationship with both her parrents even if we can't get along. Ever since I came back from Finland, I have kept communication to a minimum and only spoke about things regarding lilian. She has said repeatedly that she hopes I die, get homeless, that lilian will hate me etc. Every time I have felt the urge to argue back and defend myself, but that would just keep the cycle going on.

Not a day goes by that I don't think of myself that I'm a bad father and that I should be doing more, but when I think about it honestly there isn't much I can do. The relationship we had was toxic, alot of drama and fighting, and I don't want my child growing up with an image of her parrents being like that. But leaving her, does not mean that I'm abandoning my daughter. Of course I can't visit every week due to the distance, but with current technology such as skype maintaining contact has become relatively easy, but she says that Lilian just thinks I'm a teletubby on the screen and that she can skype with me when she's old enough to choose that herself. I told her that creating bondage is an ongoing process and it wouldn't be right to suddenly start skyping when the child is older with little contact before (except the visits). I really want to see my daughter on skype, but I don't know what to do if she won't let me. My therapist said that if she doesn't show her on skype I should not pay child support, this doesn't seem right however cuz it would be damaging to my child. And I'm afraid that simply threatening with the idea would only lead to further conflict and drama. Another way would be to go to court, but I'm not sure if the court can decide on something like weekly or twice weekly skype contacts? Needless to say this situation is really draining me and I'm in doubt what is the best option right now. I currently got a visit to Finland planned for next month for lilians first birthday, so I untill then I won't do anything in order to not make the situation any worse.

She also said that she's angry that I left her to take care of the child alone and that I should have stayed with her to help her the first years. I think however that it would be extremely devastating to a child to witness a divorce when they are at the age they understand, and that it's better not to stay together for lilian's sake. Of course I understand that it's extremely hard raising a child alone, and I have told her also that if she doesn't want it, I would take lilian here with me and raise her, even if that would mean quitting my job etc. I truely hate this situation, but I have to stay in it for the sake of lilian. I still love my ex, even though I know that it won't ever work out, and all this hate and drama is draining me.

As to an earlier poster saying that I still live with my parrents, yes I am indeed as I don't have the money to move on my own, as you know the economy isn't at it's best right now, and after paying child support, and bills it's just not possible right now. And I have offered to move in together with her in Finland when we were still together, but she said her self that I should stay in the Netherlands, even though before she said I should move there, when I started planning on it she said I shouldn't etc. These kinds of yes / no things have been happening all the time throughout our relationship, and it's not just pregnancy hormones because it's the same now and it also was before the pregnancy, that's the reason why my therapist also said that it sounds like the has Borderline Personality Disorder, but of course we can't know that for sure without her going to a psychiatrist for screening.

Anyway I'm not here to look for sympathy, although it's always nice to recieve it of course. I would like to know what your opinions are as to what to do in this situation where she doesn't want to show me my daughter on skype. Right now I'm just avoiding contact, yeasterday she send me again a message on facebook saying that she hates me more and more and that lilian would also get to see later in life what a bad person I am, and that she hopes I become homeless. I choose not to respond to this message at all, and I also think that right now the time is not right to push her into showing me lilian on skype, she has been sleeping bad because lilian has been having an ear infection so nights are hard on her, so I understand her anger. I'm just afraid that if I push her to show me lilian on skype, or better to let lilian see her father on skype (which is always the way I brought it to her, as lilian has a right to see me, not the other way around) that she won't let me see lilian when I visit there for her birthday next month. Anyway many thanks in advance, I feel bad every day about this situation beating myself up, I can't enjoy stuff because I feel I don't deserve to enjoy things, but then at the same time I realise that I have to just go on living, because feeling sad and hopeless doesn't help anyone in this situation. I am writing a book for lilian every week I write some pages as to what's going on in my and my families life, and what I think about her and discribe what she did when I saw her on skype or some photo's / video's on facebook, which I think would be a great gift for her later when she's old.

[AldenG]

This woman does sound seriously wack, whether it's BPD or anything else.

I don't know what you DO with that insight, but your recognizing it is better for everyone than acting in blind, one-sided good faith.

Obviously one needs to be concerned about the welfare of your daughter, but again I don't know how you act on that in these circumstances.

[rinso]

It is clear to me that the mother of your child is mentally ill. And over time, this will only get worse.
When she is admitted to a mental institution (and that will happen) she cannot take care of your daughter. You cannot step in because you probably are not allowed to take her to Holland. So the grandparents are the most likely option. It will give you more access to your daughter, but you will remain this weird speaking foreign guy that she can not understand. And when her mother is released from hospital, the situation changes again.
I'm wondering if this situation is good for your daughter. You really need professional advice in this.

I have the impression you have ignored advice to guaranty your rights because you didn't want lawyers involved. Now you're paying without any leverage to see or talk to your daughter. It might already be to late to repair the damage.

[Työelämä]

Hi all, I haven't checked this forum in a while. Thanks again for the advice so far. As for the person saying the story is one sided, of course it is, there is my story, her story and then there's the truth. That's how things always go in life.
I can however state the facts and the way I see things.

Since I last posted things have been bouncing around, first she is all happy and let's me see my daughter on skype and says she wants to put her on an english kindergarden etc, which I think would be great, but then 3 days later she says how much she hates me and that she doesn't think she should put the effort to show lilian (our daughter) to me on skype. She has moved on her own to an apartment in Helsinki together with Lilian, as she didn't want to live with her parrents anymore, her budget is really tight as a result of this, which is very difficult for her. I told her that I understand it that she hates me, but that showing lilian to me on skype is not doing something nice for me, but is actually doing the best for lilian. Every psychology book / site you read says the same that it's important for a child to have a good relationship with both her parrents even if we can't get along. Ever since I came back from Finland, I have kept communication to a minimum and only spoke about things regarding lilian. She has said repeatedly that she hopes I die, get homeless, that lilian will hate me etc. Every time I have felt the urge to argue back and defend myself, but that would just keep the cycle going on.

Not a day goes by that I don't think of myself that I'm a bad father and that I should be doing more, but when I think about it honestly there isn't much I can do. The relationship we had was toxic, alot of drama and fighting, and I don't want my child growing up with an image of her parrents being like that. But leaving her, does not mean that I'm abandoning my daughter. Of course I can't visit every week due to the distance, but with current technology such as skype maintaining contact has become relatively easy, but she says that Lilian just thinks I'm a teletubby on the screen and that she can skype with me when she's old enough to choose that herself. I told her that creating bondage is an ongoing process and it wouldn't be right to suddenly start skyping when the child is older with little contact before (except the visits). I really want to see my daughter on skype, but I don't know what to do if she won't let me. My therapist said that if she doesn't show her on skype I should not pay child support, this doesn't seem right however cuz it would be damaging to my child. And I'm afraid that simply threatening with the idea would only lead to further conflict and drama. Another way would be to go to court, but I'm not sure if the court can decide on something like weekly or twice weekly skype contacts? Needless to say this situation is really draining me and I'm in doubt what is the best option right now. I currently got a visit to Finland planned for next month for lilians first birthday, so I untill then I won't do anything in order to not make the situation any worse.

She also said that she's angry that I left her to take care of the child alone and that I should have stayed with her to help her the first years. I think however that it would be extremely devastating to a child to witness a divorce when they are at the age they understand, and that it's better not to stay together for lilian's sake. Of course I understand that it's extremely hard raising a child alone, and I have told her also that if she doesn't want it, I would take lilian here with me and raise her, even if that would mean quitting my job etc. I truely hate this situation, but I have to stay in it for the sake of lilian. I still love my ex, even though I know that it won't ever work out, and all this hate and drama is draining me.

As to an earlier poster saying that I still live with my parrents, yes I am indeed as I don't have the money to move on my own, as you know the economy isn't at it's best right now, and after paying child support, and bills it's just not possible right now. And I have offered to move in together with her in Finland when we were still together, but she said her self that I should stay in the Netherlands, even though before she said I should move there, when I started planning on it she said I shouldn't etc. These kinds of yes / no things have been happening all the time throughout our relationship, and it's not just pregnancy hormones because it's the same now and it also was before the pregnancy, that's the reason why my therapist also said that it sounds like the has Borderline Personality Disorder, but of course we can't know that for sure without her going to a psychiatrist for screening.

Anyway I'm not here to look for sympathy, although it's always nice to recieve it of course. I would like to know what your opinions are as to what to do in this situation where she doesn't want to show me my daughter on skype. Right now I'm just avoiding contact, yeasterday she send me again a message on facebook saying that she hates me more and more and that lilian would also get to see later in life what a bad person I am, and that she hopes I become homeless. I choose not to respond to this message at all, and I also think that right now the time is not right to push her into showing me lilian on skype, she has been sleeping bad because lilian has been having an ear infection so nights are hard on her, so I understand her anger. I'm just afraid that if I push her to show me lilian on skype, or better to let lilian see her father on skype (which is always the way I brought it to her, as lilian has a right to see me, not the other way around) that she won't let me see lilian when I visit there for her birthday next month. Anyway many thanks in advance, I feel bad every day about this situation beating myself up, I can't enjoy stuff because I feel I don't deserve to enjoy things, but then at the same time I realise that I have to just go on living, because feeling sad and hopeless doesn't help anyone in this situation. I am writing a book for lilian every week I write some pages as to what's going on in my and my families life, and what I think about her and discribe what she did when I saw her on skype or some photo's / video's on facebook, which I think would be a great gift for her later when she's old.

Hi, we are in same situation my wife tends to portray similar characters like your ex for instance unusual levels of instability in mood; black and white thinking, or splitting as well as chaotic and unstable interpersonal relationships, self-image, identity, and behavior; as well as a disturbance in her individual's sense of self. She was even smoking when we had our pregnancy of 7 to 8 months old which doctors and even family members have told her it is dangerous to our child. But you know with all this when i look into her i see a strong woman, intelligent and educated , a person that may have undergone her own childhood experiences. I did have this promise to my self that i will not raise my children in a split marriage or polygamous family and i still stick back with my wife and show her how i still love her and the baby and i want us to remain as family even with the disagreement and agreement going on within us. Recently we even had a fight on what name we should give to our child and she insisted it hers or non but this has also been resolved after i talked her out of it and gave her reasons why the child should have both names. Things were even worst before, but since ever i got a job and our finances are improving, she is seeing more sense stability, and what made me cry out and say to her that i understand personality issues and will not give up and will make her improve a lot from it was when she told that i was even stronger than her father who left her mother when she was younger that has led to her developing the personality disorder. I have involved my wife into swimming classes, Fitness exercises, bars and clubbing, social gathering and i can tell you things are better off today than it was months or years ago. My promise to my child is one mother and father, i will remain strong even through the yelling and shouting from wife if it is too much i will take a walk outside and breath the fresh air outside to avoid the fighting.

[Oombongo]

Your ex has really some serious problems, and she is going to poison your daughter with her ramblings.
I wish you best of luck in this situation, and hope that your daughter will turn out to be a good person despite this situation.