Kindergarten sleeping a HUGE problem :(

[AldenG]

I'll just expand on that comment a bit before leaving this for others to argue over.

Chronic shouting in a family context is clearly harmful to the children involved. It's widely regarded as a kind of abuse though in some cultures, its long-term effects are only beginning to be recognized. It's also abusive to the adults involved, but at least they have some degree of choice in the matter. The children don't. Chronic open conflict around very young children causes permanent changes in the alarm centers of their developing brains, changes that can't really be undone later in life.

Chronic shouting isn't a form of communication -- it is the last step in the breakdown of communication before actual violence begins. Some families shrink back from the brink and never take that final step over the line, but many do cross it.

Usually the person who looks for outside help in a situation that is escalating or becoming unmanageable is the healthiest person in the room. And when she does (because it's usually the woman, though not always), there are inevitably a bunch of people telling her why it's a bad idea: because the professionals are quacks, because only weak people go to outsiders, blah-blah-blah. Obviously the husband or partner tends to be the first person on that list, but other discouragers might at first glance surprise you: mothers, sisters, best friends. There can be a number of people invested in seeing someone NOT try to change the status quo. If they're not directly invested in that person's situation, they may nonetheless feel that one person's actions create pressure to make uncomfortable changes in their OWN lives if a close friend is starting to say: I don't want my life to be like this any more.

The option is there. I don't know the quality or availability in Finland, but in some form it is there. Those who say we don't know the real family situation are correct. We don't. We can only recognize or fail to recognize typical warning signs. It's all Ellah's choice. She knows best, and deep down she knows what she wants. But I think it's wrong to discourage her from considering her options. So many people who finally do take such a step end up wishing they had done it years -- or even decades -- earlier than they finally did. It's a form of taking charge of one's life, and that already in itself tends to reduce stress.

[AnnikaL]

Alden - my point is, I strongly suspect the comments were an over-exaggeration of reality. I wouldn't assume just because that is what was said, that is what happens.

Otherwise, I'd agree with the points you're making. Only that I wouldn't start lecturing someone based on so little evidence of what is really happening.

Edit to say aswell: yes, I understand the advice is well-intentioned. But it can be annoying when people offer totally unsolicited advice. She came asking about a problem with kindergarten, not looking for input into her home life.

[jas_rho]

Only that I wouldn't start lecturing someone based on so little evidence of what is really happening.

Edit to say aswell: yes, I understand the advice is well-intentioned. But it can be annoying when people offer totally unsolicited advice. She came asking about a problem with kindergarten, not looking for input into her home life.

Totally agree

But what is to be expected when you post to a forum? You can expect to get all kinds of advice

[Upphew]

Only that I wouldn't start lecturing someone based on so little evidence of what is really happening.

Edit to say aswell: yes, I understand the advice is well-intentioned. But it can be annoying when people offer totally unsolicited advice. She came asking about a problem with kindergarten, not looking for input into her home life.

Totally agree

But what is to be expected when you post to a forum? You can expect to get all kinds of advice

But that makes the forums better than face to face... you can just stop reading and move on.