Post
by schubi » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:25 pm
Ciao nisha,
I just read through this thread and i think that you should definitely move here! There are a couple of other Swiss up here who made it and like it a lot, so welcome soon! Another reason fro trying is because otherwise you (and/or your financée) will continue to wonder whether it would be possible or not. As you can see from many posts, there are foreigners who have a very hard time here and others who just love it (including me). So nobody can give you advice on whether to do so or not ...
But there still comes a BUT : Finland is probably one of more difficult countries in Europe to move to as a foreigner.
Let's start with a few numbers: In Finland live approx. 1300 Swiss citizens whereof 1000 have also the Finnish passport, i.e. 300 who have not. This means that most of these 1000 are kids of immigrated Swiss or people who stayed long enough (it takes ~10 yrs to get the passport). Only a few have come here in recent years. In Switzerland on the other hand, there are approx. 10,000 Finnish nationals living. That as such is prove enough that integration southwards probably works much easier than northwards. Just think of how many couples have had the same discussions as you are facing now. If you are interested, I can get you in contact with a few who decided to live here, and also a few who went back.
A second thing to remember: Switzerland has 18% foreigners (approx. 30% in Zurich area, even more in Geneva) Finnland has below 2% and approx 5% in the hki area. So we are quite exotic here. which means that many people don't really know how to handle us, especially all the virastot (Behörden). This means trouble (and endless waiting), you will see. In addition, there is a very small expat and international community, so there is not much to escape to if you don't like the Finnish way of living....
And now to some of your questions:
1) Cold and long winters: Yes, but manageable. The climate is similar to e.g. the Engadin valley in Graubünden, with temperature down to minus 20, but easily manageable for Swiss, especially when you like wintersports. The darkness is somewhat more difficult, but also manageable. before xmas there are usually so many (drinking) events - pikkujoulu time - that you will not realize that it is getting darker. then you will make 2 weeks skiing holidays at home and so you are already mid-january. now the 2-3 tough months start, but they will be highly rewarded with light in the summer. so don't worry. i haven't met any swiss who couldn't cope with the winter up here.
2) job: very difficult. most important, finnish language skills. the "official" unemployment rate is 9%, my personal estimate of people in working age that live on social contributions is probably closer to 20% than 10%... In addition, salaries are at least 30-50% if not more lower that in Switzerland (before tax!!!), whereas price levels are only about 15% lower, if at all. and not to speak about the ridiculously small pension benefits that you will receive. Details you can find in the latest world-wide purchasing power report of UBS. In short: financially it is really "biräweich" to move to finland. but then again, life doesn't always mean to optimize your financials every year... there are a couple of Swiss here paying a tax rate that doesn't even exist back home, since it would be regarded confiscatory...
3) Finnish language: very difficult but manageable. I can only say: hang in there!
4) working culture (working hours, ellbows, social competence): working hours are certainly lower here, vacations longer and it is generally not expected that one delivers anything more that agreed. also, ellbows are not needed since you are usually quite safe if you just execute orders from above. also, you have to remember that carrer advancements and salary increases are not that beneficial like at home, because the government cuts off such a lage piece of it that you can't find it in your pocket anymore. in short: yes, no stress, but also very limited upside potential. please note that i am generalizing here. there are some very dynamic firms and great career opportunities here for young people, but you have to go significantly above the normal Finnish dedicaction to the job, and then it is not easier anymore than anywhere else.
5) easier to be yourself: personally, i think that is complete !"#¤% "blödsinn": as long as you behave within Finnish norms, you can be as you are here. And i agree, a lot is tolerated, especially under the influence of alcohol. Also, the system requires much less responsibility for your doings and bails (pays) you out easily. However, being yourself outside Finnish norms is quite tough here as well, e.g., being black, using the collective washing maschine after 10pm, talking foreign languages in the tram, having different political opinions or even questioning the welfare state with well proven facts, etc.
Since this post is too long already, a few final things. There is a small Group of Swiss expats in the capital region that would all be willing to answer questions. They all come from completely different backgrounds (language student, fashion fotographer, banker, IT R&D manager). Also, we have quite good connections to our consultate, so if you get stuck there, we might be able to help or at least put you in contact with the right people. So please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need advice. i will post you my e-mail and phone number.
I learn Finnish because I don't feel comfortable being outsider of the society. Ability to speak Finnish, does not always change this being outsider in this country.
