Voluntary international relocation with a finnish child

[cors187]

Why it should be the foreigner who is granted right to have child with them?

I think you will find that a mother is a better prime care giver,thats why they are mums.
None of these cases are about a Finnish mum fighting her retarded immigrant ex for child custody, or am i mistaken ?

[tampere_gal]

There have been such cases, but of course not when the family lives in Finland. But Finnish women who are foreigners in other countries have certainly lost out in court, and have been forced to stay abroad permanently to share raising their kids with their local-to-that-country ex.

[Adrian42]

well I don't want to comment much on a particular case when so little info is known. ... My qualm is that the option of living in the primary caregiver's home country isn't even discussed.

What we do know is that the parents in that case will have shared custody (that was written in the original post).

"Primary caregiver" is a concept of the last millennium, when often children were considered belonging to one of the parents (whether that was the father or the mother depends on the exact time you look at).

Today it is thought that it is considered best for children to have both parents, and one parent unilaterally deciding to move with the child to the other end of the world is therefore usually considered bad for the child.

It's simply illegal and out of the question. Surely there are at least some cases where what makes most sense is that the foreign parent and their extended family and the life the child would lead in that home country has even more to offer the child than Finland, as wonderful as Finland is. And for those children it's a pity it's not even on the table, up for discussion.

It is not illegal, but usually neither in the interest of the child nor of the other parent.

And child custody battles would become even more ugly if the parent who wins at court the "primary caregiver" role as you call it would then have the right to take the children away from the other parent.

When one parent is allowed to move with the child to another country, that basically forces the other parent to either give up the child or also move to that country.

[tampere_gal]

Cory- As parents you decided together what was best and your ex was amazing, and you were amazing, and there is no friction. Wonderful.

Unfortunately some spouses, particularly those who turn abusive during the marriage, aren't willing to participate in such a discourse and in that case the foreign parent simply loses out.

It's more than fine to sacrifice for the best interests of your children. It's not nearly as peaceful a feeling if it isn't (or isn't necessarily) in the best interest of the children to stick to the status quo simply because any other option is removed from consideration.

Those of us left in that situation really have to reach into our reserves to find zen with the situation and move forward with optimism. The funny thing is that if I had an ex like yours (cooperative, willing to think of the best interests of anyone other than himself, and amicable with me) I might have very well decided to stay here, on my own accord, as well. And then would be left with much less bitterness to let go of because I would be here by choice. It's when the primary care provider isn't offered even a vote as to what is best for the children that you end up feeling like the system sure aint perfect and it was a grave decision indeed to toss away all rights when birthing abroad.

[tampere_gal]

Ask any stay at home mom who breastfeeds a baby if there is such thing as a primary caregiver. They're not unicorns, they do exist. And it is illegal. Google Hague convention.
And it would suck for the parent to have to move. Exactly as much as it sucks for the non Finn to have to stay in Finland. Who cares how much it sucks, the discussion should be where would the child have the brightest future?

[Adrian42]

And it is illegal. Google Hague convention.

Where exactly does it say that this is illegal if both parents agree?

And it would suck for the parent to have to move. Exactly as much as it sucks for the non Finn to have to stay in Finland. Who cares how much it sucks, the discussion should be where would the child have the brightest future?

So when a man from Finland and a woman from Ghana marry, live together and have children in Ghana, the father should get after the divorce automatically the permission to take the children with him to Finland since they have a brighter future in Finland than in Ghana?

It is obvious that the future of children to a huge extend depend on the quality of the education system and the opportunities they have after their education, so according to your logic Finland is in most cases the best place for the children...

[rinso]

So when a man from Finland and a woman from Ghana marry, live together and have children in Ghana, the father should get after the divorce automatically the permission to take the children with him to Finland since they have a brighter future in Finland than in Ghana?

It is obvious that the future of children to a huge extend depend on the quality of the education system and the opportunities they have after their education, so according to your logic Finland is in most cases the best place for the children...

Since Finland (and other Nordic countries) live at the top of most polls about quality of life, it will be difficult to understand that the child is better of in a country much lower on those lists.
You cannot argue that away with only the emotional state of the mother.

[cors187]

I think the foreign woman has a case if it can be proven that the citizen father destroyed the marriage through unfair means.
This 1st ruling can give rise to the notion of a 2nd hearing that can remove the" citizen parent default rule" .Then a new trial for legal custody of the child can be heard.

After obtaining the victory over the diminished citizen, the foreigner applies for baby passport and goodbye to this thread.

[cors187]

So when a man from Finland and a woman from Germany marry

I dont think a Finnish court system has the right to gauge the next 18 years of the child's life in another country.Or do you really think that evidence should be applicable?

[cors187]

You cannot argue that away with only the emotional state of the mother.

I personally think that the emotional state of a mother in the whole existence of being a child to youth to adult has the biggest impact on a Family , no matter how big or small , or close or divided.Its the number 1 factor that has the most %.

[CH]

I think the foreign woman has a case if it can be proven that the citizen father destroyed the marriage through unfair means.

Finland has a no-fault divorce. It has absolutely no bearing on the child's right to both parents on whose fault the divorce was. And, no matter who has custody, you need to have the permission of both parents to take a child out of the country (that's why you need to have both parents present to get a passport for a minor, too). This is not something that is unique to Finland, it is a pretty common practice for countries who have signed the Hague Convention of International Child Abduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conv ... _Abduction).

[cors187]

Finland has a no-fault divorce.

link?

[007]

Finland has a no-fault divorce.

link?

http://www.om.fi/20517.htm

"....When handling a case of divorce, the court does not examine why the spouses or one of them demands divorce nor the personal relationship between the spouses. A divorce case becomes pending in the District Court by written application, which can be made by the spouses together or one spouse alone."

[tampere_gal]

I hope things work at least ok out for the woman and her baby here in Finland. Hopefully she gets plenty of child support from the dad and she can find some goals to pursue here, in order to keep her chin up and feeling positive moving forward, as a person and a mother. If the dad is useless and abusive then perhaps she can win sole custody, and then decide what is best for her baby and herself with all options on the table.

Meh, it's bleak -but its not Saudi Arabia. There are positive things here to focus on even as a single parent, if you are fiercely determined enough to make the best out of the situation.

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, they say. Finnish climate/language/melancholy surely must make superheroes out of those of us here for decades!!! some consolation, anyway.

[cors187]

Finland has a no-fault divorce.

link?

http://www.om.fi/20517.htm

"....When handling a case of divorce, the court does not examine why the spouses or one of them demands divorce nor the personal relationship between the spouses. A divorce case becomes pending in the District Court by written application, which can be made by the spouses together or one spouse alone."

This is good then because we are not going to court over the divorce ,the divorce is just a documentary procedure.Its a legal effect of 2 people separating.

I think the foreign woman has a case if it can be proven that the citizen father destroyed the marriage through unfair means.
This 1st ruling can give rise to the notion of a 2nd hearing that can remove the" citizen parent default rule" .Then a new trial for legal custody of the child can be heard.

After obtaining the victory over the diminished citizen, the foreigner applies for baby passport and goodbye to this thread.

The case is proving reckless detachment that is shown to be of a permanent nature, Which gives rise to the petition of the second case.Its a civil case, infact divorce only adds weight to the permanency.Next!