Swedish

[Honest]

I don't support the idea of protecting and supporting colonial languages. Step by step any special status should be removed. There can be bilateral agreements to protect minority languages where Finns protect Swedish and Swedes Finnish. Otherwise if Finnish minority in Sweden must learn and do business only in Swedish then why should Finland be protecting the Swedish?

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

If there is one foreign language to learn, obviously it is English. Most would agree that there are limited resources for teaching languages in schools, meaning that there is a limit to the number of languages which are being taught, at least generally to everyone. Usually this is where the somewhat shared understanding ends around this topic. And no, I didn't yet make any statements of what should happen, even though I have no doubt someone was already reading between the lines and seeing something that isn't there.

My view on the matter is as follows: given that there is a limit to the amount of languages that can be taught and can be expected to learn, and (in my opinion) no one language is best suited for all situations considering individual students and their interests and the country as a whole, therefore it should be possible to select which language one studies as the second (as currently there are two) foreign language. Hence, Swedish (for Finnish-speakers and vice versa) should be an alternate to other languages as the second foreign language.

I have nothing against Swedish as a language, much less Sweden or the Swedish people, it just defies my logic that Swedish is mandatory in Finland, whereas it would be much more beneficial to have alternates. This has nothing to do with how languages in general are beneficial, or any other sideline to the actual point: Swedish as a language is not important enough that it should be mandatory. Even if everyone was taught two or three foreign languages in addition to English, I still think that none of them should be mandatory but chosen by the student instead.

[raskarhu]

Useless? Swedish? What about Finnish then? Isn't that even more useless? At least Swedish can be used to communicate all over Scandinavia (maybe except Iceland) . Secondly, Swedish is the language of Finland's neighbour country, for economic reasons it can be an advantage to be able to speak the linguo. Moreover, tt gives the Finns an advantage over the Swedes who do not learn Finnish. Besides, it's Finland's second language... so why not learn it?

[raskarhu]

Lets make an example, im part of that mandatory swedish.
I can say "jag heter hannu" and thats it. For sure i can say more but to communicate,,, We use english.
I can say more in spanish, japanese, germany etc, not to say english. Swedish is useless.
Sure if swedish is used as language of rulers as it was in 1800s then... but its not. We have our own language and swedes can go their own country,

Hate to break it to you Onkko. But your english proficiency sucks (heavily). It's useless.

[Honest]

Useless? Swedish? What about Finnish then? Isn't that even more useless?

No it's not useless. I would not be able to get my current job without some knowledge of Finnish. With Finnish you can communicate with the people who live in this country. I live in Finland, I need Finnish to make life easier. I don't need Swedish at all, where I can't manage with Finnish I can use English.

Finnish is useless for people who are not living in Finland just as Swedish is useless for people who are not living in Sweden and Finland is not a part of Sweden anymore. Isn't it simple?

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Useless? Swedish? What about Finnish then? Isn't that even more useless? At least Swedish can be used to communicate all over Scandinavia (maybe except Iceland) . Secondly, Swedish is the language of Finland's neighbour country, for economic reasons it can be an advantage to be able to speak the linguo. Moreover, tt gives the Finns an advantage over the Swedes who do not learn Finnish. Besides, it's Finland's second language... so why not learn it?

Ahem... this is Finland, the language of the vast majority of which is Finnish. Why not learn Swedish... by all means learn it, it just isn't important enough to be mandatory for all Finland, as opposed to being an alternative among others (some of which are much more major languages). As for Finnish for Swedish-speakers in Finland, it's all the same for me whether they study Finnish in school or not. Many of them are/would be bi-lingual anyway even without studying it, whereas in most parts of Finland one rarely hears Swedish being spoken.

[onkko]

Lets make an example, im part of that mandatory swedish.
I can say "jag heter hannu" and thats it. For sure i can say more but to communicate,,, We use english.
I can say more in spanish, japanese, germany etc, not to say english. Swedish is useless.
Sure if swedish is used as language of rulers as it was in 1800s then... but its not. We have our own language and swedes can go their own country,

Hate to break it to you Onkko. But your english proficiency sucks (heavily). It's useless.

I can read/listen english fluently. I cant write well even in finnish. My vocabulary is way better than others in my work and i dont need "think finnish" what is bit of a problem when i have to translate. Its far from useless. Not perfect but not useless.
I do use english to communicate, by email mostly, weekly and people understand what i said, not useless.
Of course fact that i make money to people affects to others "ability" to understand, swedes who still think finland is siirtomaa are wed out.

[foca]

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for Swedish so learning it is just wasting their time and taking classroom resources away from something more useful. Better maths proficiency, better cooking skill, better understanding of sex education, ......

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for trigonometry/chemistry/ physics /geography /cooking skills and best of all -sex education Is it the reason not to have those subjects in school?

[Marsh04]

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for Swedish so learning it is just wasting their time and taking classroom resources away from something more useful. Better maths proficiency, better cooking skill, better understanding of sex education, ......

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for trigonometry/chemistry/ physics /geography /cooking skills and best of all -sex education Is it the reason not to have those subjects in school?

Childish reasoning

[foca]

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for Swedish so learning it is just wasting their time and taking classroom resources away from something more useful. Better maths proficiency, better cooking skill, better understanding of sex education, ......

The vast majority of Finns never have a use for trigonometry/chemistry/ physics /geography /cooking skills and best of all -sex education Is it the reason not to have those subjects in school?

Childish reasoning

Childish ir not , but how often do you use trigonometry or chemistry (if it is needed in you current job)?
Perhaps you should have had less of these subjects to learn something else?
These subjects are in the curriculum for a reason - they prepare children to live in the real world. They might use one skill or another in their future education or job . And we do not really allow them to skip math or physics for the simple reason that "I will not need it". Swedish speakers (wherever onkko likes it or not) are part of the finnish society and have greatly contributed to the finnish culture (and in general have learned much better Finnish compared to finns who do not usually speak Swedish). The decesion on mandatory swedish is built upon uneasy history of the two peoples living close to each other. Finnish school gives just a tiny insight into this history l I believe that learning Swedish allows children to understand both finnsh history and current Finnish cultural environment.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

I believe that learning Swedish allows children to understand both finnsh history and current Finnish cultural environment.

Clearly your beliefs are faulted. There is very little historical or cultural aspect in the Swedish language being taugh in schools (perhaps you would like that there would be, but it really is just another language). Not so surprisingly, people fail to see that there is in fact a hell of a lot more of Finland than Helsinki/Espoo/Vantaa. Furthermore, you fail to see that the benefit of learning another language instead.

[007]

I believe that learning Swedish allows children to understand both finnsh history and current Finnish cultural environment.

Clearly your beliefs are faulted. There is very little historical or cultural aspect in the Swedish language being taugh in schools (perhaps you would like that there would be, but it really is just another language). Not so surprisingly, people fail to see that there is in fact a hell of a lot more of Finland than Helsinki/Espoo/Vantaa. Furthermore, you fail to see that the benefit of learning another language instead.

It shows why swedish language should be in history and culture curruculum , not a seperate sublect for non-native speakers.

[Rosamunda]

Yes, I agree, exactly the point I made at the top of this thread. Teach the kids a few Swedish schnaps songs (always useful) and tell them some Mumintroll stories. Teach them to make meatballs and Lussebulle. Take them to Åland (quite a fun place, you can even visit the sites where the Anglo-French allies pillaged the local communities during the Crimean War). If the kids have fun when they are in primary school, then maybe a few will actually choose to learn Swedish in 7th grade!

[foca]

I believe that learning Swedish allows children to understand both finnsh history and current Finnish cultural environment.

Clearly your beliefs are faulted. There is very little historical or cultural aspect in the Swedish language being taugh in schools (perhaps you would like that there would be, but it really is just another language). Not so surprisingly, people fail to see that there is in fact a hell of a lot more of Finland than Helsinki/Espoo/Vantaa. Furthermore, you fail to see that the benefit of learning another language instead.

I never refered to the fact of teaching the language as historical aspect as it is . Swedish was the language of learning and high culture in Finland , whether Finns like onkko approve of it or not . Kalevala was collected by swedish speaking Lönnrot , finnish national anthem is part of a poem written in Swedish, even most of polititians of the post 1918 years came from swedish speaking families (even though some of then fennomans). After all, even the fennoman movement came largely from within finnish swedes.
And I do not fail to see the simple benefit of learning Swedish as another foreign language , it was just out of scope of my message. Swedish obviously is a good bridge between German and English , and obviously knowledge of it allows for deeper understanding of any Germanic language. But the thing is that Swedish in Finland is more than just another foreign language .

[Honest]

You don't need a bridge to English when you already have to learn it in school even before you start to learn this "bridge".

Learning Swedish as a compulsory subject is like living in the past. Finland has moved ahead from being a Swedish colony. Nobody is asking to distort the history by ignoring the role Swedish has played here. But do you keep a dead cow at home forever because it used to be so useful for your family in its prime time?