Opportunity/threat to once live in Finland?

[karen]

Do you love him enough to live any place with him? If yes, then do just that. If no, then leave him.

[EP]

I've already lived ten years out of my life abroad, in several goes.

So you are homesick. Understandable. I became homesick just after 4 years. I think you should come to Finland for a half a year (darker half), and visit him a couple of times during that. And maybe he could sacrifice at least one visit to you, France is not far away. Then you would see if he is important to you or not. And he would see how important you are (or are not).

And if he is important enough, you really don´t care where you live. One thing I don´t get: Why do you need him to promise you beforehand that he will live in Finland at some point of life? You cannot plan life ahead like that. You cannot really plan anything, there are always too many surprises.

[phhm]

And if he is important enough, you really don´t care where you live. One thing I don´t get: Why do you need him to promise you beforehand that he will live in Finland at some point of life? You cannot plan life ahead like that. You cannot really plan anything, there are always too many surprises.

I don't want to find myself in the same situation as last time: I was dying to go back to Finland at least for a few years but the bloke wouldn't make a move how ever long I waited and what ever I did. So the whole thing was finished after five years. (I couldn't live with a man who has proven to be so egoistic anyways. Yes, I think it is extremely egoistic, especially from a man who has already lived abroad.) So I need to know he is capable of it and I need him to promise he will do it eventually if I really need to return fo Finland, as I think will probably happen. So i don't give up everything, change my life and move countries for something that can't work out anyways!

Of course if after a couple of years we don't get along and wouldn't stay together anyways, there is no question I'd want him with me in Finland.

[interleukin]

I am sorry but I think you are completely nuts even discussing this. And egoistic. What difference will it make if he promises you now that he will move to Finland with you one day? None I suspect. When he realises he is trapped in a world where he is unhappy (and yes, he may truly be unhappy even if you do not understand why) he will hate you for forcing him to move to a country without it being a common decision you both made. And then your relationship is bye bye.

[Desundial]

Wow, this is quite an interesting exchange. Phhm it truely sounds like you are struggling this, but rather than argue with the variety of responses you've gotten, try and go somewhere serene and really think deeply about what is going on in this situation for you - and for him. We're giving you our opinions, and of course we don't know the whole situation, but only what you've revealed to us. You're not going to like what I say below, but this thread's really gotten me fired up, so I hope you'll at least listen!

It sounds like you have a serious problem. He is telling you pretty clearly who he is and what he is about, but you are really not listening because he is not telling you what you want to hear. How can you say that someone else's "gut" is ridiculous? Are his feelings ridiculous? Are yours? You can think and feel differently but can you ridicule someone else's emotions?? Being in a relationship means respecting that the other person is an individual with their own feelings. You are lucky that he is articulating them to you.

He says he doesn't like the Finnish landscape, and you mentioned he likes mountains. This can be a profound preference for someone- just as profound as your deep and clear need for forests, lakes, and finland. Mountain people are a distinct breed and don't do well outside of them, or farther than within a decent traveling radius. It's clear that you are not this personality type, if you think mountains are monotonous "rocks, rocks, rocks..." So, since I am, I will tell you, you are in for a world of misery if you do succeed in transplanting one of these mt. people to finland against their will and gut.

Beautiful and serene as Finland is - it IS "flat" for people who thrive in, are inspired by, and used to the world's greatest mountian ranges, like for example the Alps. I'm not talking about HKI but lapland and rukka and the rest. It's absurd to try to change a true mountain lover's mind on this- to use an analogy I hope you'll understand- the world is round. I would think much less of you for trying to convince you that it wasn't and start to question if you really understood me and my values if you persisted in the effort.

Your attitude is that there is something wrong with him because his thinking is not a mirror to yours.

In my opinion, you have to have something wrong in the head not being thrilled by Finland after that summer holiday.

If he moved here and was miserable or going through the inevitable hard adjustment period and sought your sympathy would you tell him, "there's something wrong with you" ?

And then you say

but if he doesn't value our relationship enough to give a few years of his life to Finland "in return" ...

It sounds like you want to punish him and make him pay for the pain you went through with someone else. Relationships are about two people sharing a life together and growing together, not suffering or "giving up their life" for the other. I moved to finland for many reasons - but I decided to make the move. There are things I like and things I don't. I would love for my man to move to my home country but not because he "owes" it to me and not if he would be miserable there or it meant giving up fundamentaly who he is. The pros need to outweight the cons.

Of course, it is absolutely fair to expect if you make sacrifies, so will the other person (and this guy could be a complete jerk, but he's not the one asking for advice)- but when they tell you where the boundry lines are for them in their life - i.e. he draws the line at promising you something (moving to finland) he doesn't think he could do - you need to listen very carefully and recognize the lines that they've drawn.

Your priorities are very clear in your posts - you want to move back to finland, if only for some time. If this is going to bother you for the rest of your life, maybe it's a bigger priority deep in your gut, than this man. That is what you need to decide your fundamental values, and ultimate priorities & requirements for happiness.

Based on what you've said he's said & feels there is no happiness in your future and in this relationship if you don't address this and decide that you can embrace a life with him, and accept what he is telling you now, and be open yourself to the chance of change (both for you and in your future, or the chance -but not the guarantee-that he may change his mind in the end - or that he never will.) Yes, this all about your effort, not his, because you are ultimately in charge of your own life and happiness, and need to be honest to yourself about how much you are willing to change and be honest to him about your personal needs. If you can't truely embrace these chances, for your own sake, recognize that this is not going to work and start finding a way to make yourself happy.

Instead of automatically rejecting what he's telling you, listen very, very carefully now before you relocate. This arguement is your fork in the road and your opportunity.

[titta2]

Well, I can just say what happend to my boyfriend... We only moved here in the first place (well mainly) due to my dad's ilness. My boyfriend agreed to move well we were in a process of selling our house anyway but instead of Devon ended up north Finland. I have ways of making things look rosy...selfish on my behalf but I wanted him here one way or another...I know, I know but anyway we came. He is from Hackney,Jamaican, likes rap music, and certainly not used to cold, darkness, or the snow. But there he was carriying the wood for the fire etc... He fell in love with the cold, darkness and the snow and the peacefulness (does hate finnish radio though). I felt sick as I longed for England and we went back. I/We am here again this time for the different reasons and this time he wants to keep his flat there incase I change my mind again. But despite the taxes etc there is something he fell in love with here.

[maxxfi]

First things first: Desundial's post is excellent, IMVHO.

Then let's wear devil's advocate clothes again:

I was dying to go back to Finland at least for a few years but the bloke wouldn't make a move how ever long I waited and what ever I did. So the whole thing was finished after five years. (I couldn't live with a man who has proven to be so egoistic anyways. Yes, I think it is extremely egoistic, especially from a man who has already lived abroad.)

Are you sure your man doesn't see you as egoist as well, i.e. your (gut) feelings and needs being more worthy than his?

[donald]

Wow - what athread! Gazillion of posts within a couple of days! But the killer argument to proof that the dark winter is not bad has not yet been brought up I guess. Whenever I have this discussion with my Swiss friends about "uh, it must be terrible in winter, it's daaaaark up there, isn't it?" then I just compare. In Switzerland, during winter, you get up in the morning, go to work while it's still dark. In the eveneing you return home from work and it's dark again. It's the same in Finland. There's no difference. See.

And. In many countries there's fog in Winter (so is it in Sveitsi). I don't know how it is in Helsinki area, but in Jyväskylä, no fog ever. I can't recall a foggy day after four years of living there. And here comes the next argument. What good is it for when daylight lasts longer but it's all foggy? I prefer a few hours of sunlight a day with a clear sky over a few more hours of sunlight behind a fog curtain.

This is just to make people realise that the circumstances per se are on ething, but what you make out of it in your mind is another thing.

[superiorinferior]

I prefer a few hours of sunlight a day with a clear sky over a few more hours of sunlight behind a fog curtain.

There is something wrong with your thesis.

Since when is it clear skies all winter here?

[donald]

I prefer a few hours of sunlight a day with a clear sky over a few more hours of sunlight behind a fog curtain.

There is something wrong with your thesis.

Since when is it clear skies all winter here?

I didn't say that.

[superiorinferior]

I prefer a few hours of sunlight a day with a clear sky over a few more hours of sunlight behind a fog curtain.

There is something wrong with your thesis.

Since when is it clear skies all winter here?

I didn't say that.

You kind of implied it... But whatever. I think the darkness has a lot to do with the overcast that covers Finland most of the year.... But that's not really relevant, I guess.

[donald]

The idea behind it was to point out that some people only see the bad things at other places but fail to realise the drawbacks at their homes. In this case, people mention the long and dark winter but do not realise that at their own home towns they have quite much of fog, which sucks as well.

[Desundial]

The idea behind it was to point out that some people only see the bad things at other places but fail to realise the drawbacks at their homes. In this case, people mention the long and dark winter but do not realise that at their own home towns they have quite much of fog, which sucks as well.

Yeah, I think if we all reach really deep down, no matter where we are from we can find at a least a few things about our home / favorite place that suck! And some things that are great about another place we might say we hate. But such broad mindedness requires a certain amount of motivation and effort, for which most of us are way too lazy! INMHO...anyway, if you never move anywhere and live all your life and die in the same place where you were born, you're rarely asked to make that effort. But I digress from the thread ....

[EP]

It sounds like you want to punish him and make him pay for the pain you went through with someone else.

I thought so, too. This man #1 makes you a promise, and does not keep it. He is the one who did wrong, not this man #2. He is honest with you, and does not want to promise something that he propably cannot keep. And he is clear about it, so you don´t get any false ideas. It is now up to you, you have to decide what do you want, him or life in Finland. But don´t be angry at him, he has done nothing wrong. Why would you want to be disappointed again?

That is why I suggested that you come and live one winter in Finland, just so that you see what do you want. You have lived a long time abroad, and have maybe forgotten that "kaamos" is not just about lounging cosily in front of a fireplace sipping glögi. You have to get up in the morning, drag your sleepy bones to the bus stop and wait there in a blizzard.

[EP]

And yes, I admit that some foreigners grow roots even here, but it would be very unlikely that somebody who has firm opinion (negative/neutral) would do that.

For example I am responsible for one extra Italian in Finland. Once upon a time he followed me here, and when the romance later ended, I sort of took it for granted that he will return to Italy. And I thought that he did. Ten years later I bumped into him in Stockmann´s elevator. "What are YOU doing here?" He looked surprised and said "Where else I would be, of course I am here."