You are soon in a box if you countinue your misquotings.Pavlor wrote:Got me thinking if Tampere were a room or a box or something.Mark I. wrote:
I don't know, as I'd say Tampereeseen
Anyway...
Tai Tamperseessä.too shy to speak Finnish
These foreigeners have apparently got wax in their ears lately.Matula wrote:Riihimäellä is correct. If it is a "natural" name like Riihimäki, Rovaniemi, Lappeenranta, Seinäjoki etc. they inflect(?) like normal words.Pavlor wrote:Is it possible to say both then as I was always taught Riihimäellä?EP wrote: That is not an actual mistake, neither is wrong.
Riihimäessä would be stupid because it means that something is literally in a hill. (-ssa)
As said before, there's no logical, you coun say equally "naturally" Rovaniemessä, but it's just not said so. On the other hand, our cottage is Nanguniemessä, not Nanguniemellä.
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Hank W.
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Why Turku inflicts Turussa... after all perse - perseessäMatula wrote: Riihimäessä would be stupid because it means that something is literally in a hill. (-ssa)
The thing is 'turku' is an archaic term for 'marketplace' so maailman turuilla ja toreilla ... hamina is another archaic loan, herbour (sw/ger:hamn/hafen)
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
Tur(u)kus(s)ee(n) kyllä 
But hmmh, is it Manseeseen or Manseelle or
what?
The easiest way of thinking about it (and you'll be right 90% of the time):
If the town name has some natural form in it (-niemi, -joki, -lahti), then
you should use the -llA form if it refers to the town and the -ssa form
if it refers to a district/burb/quarter in the town:
Opiskelen Otaniemessä, mutta asuin Rovaniemellä.
Sopheline: print that page off, KOTUS likes to change its location twice
a year
-enk
But hmmh, is it Manseeseen or Manseelle or what?
The easiest way of thinking about it (and you'll be right 90% of the time):
If the town name has some natural form in it (-niemi, -joki, -lahti), then
you should use the -llA form if it refers to the town and the -ssa form
if it refers to a district/burb/quarter in the town:
Opiskelen Otaniemessä, mutta asuin Rovaniemellä.
Sopheline: print that page off, KOTUS likes to change its location twice
a year
-enk
Like Joensuulla, Lahdella, Lappeenrannalla...enk wrote: The easiest way of thinking about it (and you'll be right 90% of the time):
If the town name has some natural form in it (-niemi, -joki, -lahti), then
you should use the -llA form if it refers to the town and the -ssa form
if it refers to a district/burb/quarter in the town:
Where do you get 90%?
If there weren't exceptions, it wouldn't be a rule 
The 90% comes from a time I was extremely bored and created a program to figure out statistics for things I wanted to know It's
a beautiful little program btw, it's written in Turbo Pascal 6
EDIT:And I do apologize, it should have said ended in a natural form,
which would drop out Joensuu. Lahti I would say is Lahdessa because
there is nothing modifying it. If it were say Markonlahti, then it would
definitely be Markonlahdella unless the residents of that town were
perverse and decided to start saying Markonlahdessa
-enk
The 90% comes from a time I was extremely bored and created a program to figure out statistics for things I wanted to know
It's a beautiful little program btw, it's written in Turbo Pascal 6
EDIT:And I do apologize, it should have said ended in a natural form,
which would drop out Joensuu. Lahti I would say is Lahdessa because
there is nothing modifying it. If it were say Markonlahti, then it would
definitely be Markonlahdella unless the residents of that town were
perverse and decided to start saying Markonlahdessa
-enk
I was talking about the towns!Hank W. wrote:If its a lake of Markonlahti, I am fishing markonlahdella, and if there is a town of Markonlahti on the shore, I go to buy my tackle markonlahdessa ... logically Finnish
Like I lived in Seinäjoki (Seinäjoella) , but I fell in the Seinäjoki (Seinäjokeen).
Ah, Pilkunnussijaville is awake and at it again
Town meeting? -enk
..or exactly another way around.Hank W. wrote:If its a lake of Markonlahti, I am fishing markonlahdella, and if there is a town of Markonlahti on the shore, I go to buy my tackle markonlahdessa ... logically Finnish
Well, -lla -ending is kind of "there abouts" (or by, close by...), and -ssa is inside, or in place names, "within boundaries" (or on...).
Say ancient settlers built up their initial cottages by end of a river, and called the place straight forward "joensuu". I'd bet those first buildings were actually very close to river, thus there was original logic to say "joensuussa". (Perhaps at that time "joensuulla" was too wide expression.) Then that form stuck, though the village grew further and further away.
Again, say there was a known rova (place with lots of stones) by a certain peninsula (niemi) on river Ounas, that was called rovaniemi. Then some fishermen built a cottage *near that place*, not exactly into/on the peninsula, so it would be natural to say rovaniemellä instead of rovaniemessä. (Later on that rova is not even very close to the place where town of Rovaniemi is today.)
Those are just speculations, I don't know why people actually started to say Joensuussa and Rovaniemellä, instead of Joensuulla and Rovaniemessä.
Anyways, it's possible that there has been logic initially, but it's gone...
Just say like other people say.
