What is with this forum?!!!!!

[jag_förstår_yo_mama]

Negativity, or realism?

Tervetuloa Suomeen.

[Hank W.]

Now, Finns know that they need to adapt to foreigners in the future..but then the catch-22 is that its a long and difficult road for Finns to create a massive Training, education and learning program to attract foreign labor, integrate them, train the Finns to adjust to that foreign population.etc etc..as that becomes a burden for the society which in turn takes away the self-created wealth..

The Government is talking... Swedish model adapted there - all talk and nothing happening. Well, maybe in 10 years or so... Heck, 20 years ago a foreigner looking for work wasn't given the time of day... Now the (Un)Employment Orifice will give you 3 pages of copied links any halfwit can find with google and says "look in the internet".

It is the employers that need to be "convinced". However the catch-22 is that the big companies are willing and able to cover the initial "babysitting" costs and do employ foreigners according to the talent, but the majority of the employers are still pk-yrityksiä (small and medium sized) where they need someone "fully integrated" they can "trust". And that includes anything and everything.

Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door?

The problem is to convince the employers that the prospective workforce is skilled, more valuable than a liability and not just making noise. An empty barrel makes more noiseAs we all might know, the International English Speakers Association was established to work towards this goal. However , the change is not happening in a month nor a year - it will take the 5-10 years. And hard work instead of verbal masturbation on the internet and group-hugging some culchie with HBS who thinks the light shines out of their arse.

[Charles Monk]

HBS? WTF?
I did Google, but nothing seemed to make sense in this context. Educate me: what does it mean?

[sammy]

The Government is talking... Swedish model adapted there - all talk and nothing happening. Well, maybe in 10 years or so...

As we all might know, the International English Speakers Association was established to work towards this goal. However , the change is not happening in a month nor a year - it will take the 5-10 years.

Where's the difference, then?

[sinikettu]

HBS? WTF?
I did Google, but nothing seemed to make sense in this context. Educate me: what does it mean?

Hot Blond Syndrom...is the disease which seems to fetch a large % of men to Finland...they then find out that "she" cannot find them work, and when "they" run out of cash..it is often moi moi..
As as result they say "WTF" what the @#$%...

[sinikettu]

The Government is talking... Swedish model adapted there - all talk and nothing happening. Well, maybe in 10 years or so...

As we all might know, the International English Speakers Association was established to work towards this goal. However , the change is not happening in a month nor a year - it will take the 5-10 years.

Where's the difference, then?

One is government..and the word is "maybe"..

The other is Hank and Friends...(see his www link)..and as Hank says progress has been made..
When I came to Finland the only company who would even talk to you in English as prospective employee was Nokia..and that needed some "network connections!..

Now there are a few more...

But as with many thread like this one..the person asking the question making the gripe has disapeared because he did not get an answer that he wanted..

[sammy]

The Government is talking... Swedish model adapted there - all talk and nothing happening. Well, maybe in 10 years or so...

As we all might know, the International English Speakers Association was established to work towards this goal. However , the change is not happening in a month nor a year - it will take the 5-10 years.

Where's the difference, then?

One is government..and the word is "maybe"..

Ah yes, you're right there (I was not too serious on that one though, hats and toupees off to the said organisation )

And similarly I do hope that Jason the original poster finds a solution to his situation... it may of course appear that people are "reluctant" to help but more often than not there's nothing very much more tangible than hints and advice to give, no matter how much one might wish to try and help!

[sammy]

Why aren't there native English speaking people opening cafes and then hiring migrants... or people running cleaning businesses and hiring Brits, Kiwis, Yanks? Strange no?

Not a bad idea, but as a related & rhetorical question - how would these particular shops/restaurants/cleaning companies serve those immigrants that speak neither English nor Finnish? Or would this question be solved by a decision to serve only English-speaking immigrants?

[Paul_D]

I don't want to hijack or divert this thread, but I just want to point out (half for fun, half seriously) this thread, where various behaviors on this forum were portrayed in a funny way:
bb/viewtopic.php?t=19634

The following 2 stories are quite appropriate for this thread (put the sound on, it's more fun) :

Roberto just made the big move to Finland!
http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=72997

The Hot Blonde Syndrom
http://www.grapheine.com/classiktv/clas ... p?id=49158

/Paul

[mCowboy]

Since there are a lot of non-Finnish-speaking people in Finland, it stands to reason they need services. Most of us have qualifications or experience doing... something, providing some service. So, where are these service providers (who also don't have Finnish)? Answer: not in Finland yet, or in Finland and moaning about no employment.

So why aren't they starting to trade for themselves and service the English-only-speaking community?

Why aren't we, with our English-only, doing what foreigners do in every other country - trade within our own minority? Sure, it's less than ideal for assimilation purposes, but I should think people would still have a desire to learn Finnish and mingle with the whole population even if their local (counsellor/teacher/whatever-or) is a native English speaker.

Why aren't there native English speaking people opening cafes and then hiring migrants... or people running cleaning businesses and hiring Brits, Kiwis, Yanks? Strange no? Maybe we're all too used to expecting someone else to provide the opportunities for us?

I think the issue here is that, where as many other ethnic have one common culture and language (that most of the natives in the new country can't understand), English is well understood and spoken in most countries. Same thing here in Finland, you can't really have your "privacy" when speaking English. If you speak Chinese and don't see other Asian folks around, you're almost 100% sure to have your privacy.

Another thing is that among English speaking community there's not just one single "English" culture, but there's British, Scottish, Welsh, Australian, New Zealand, South African, US and Canadian. Despite more or less common language, there's still quite a difference with the (pop) culture, food, humor etc. Brits are laughing at Yanks' being dumb and Yanks make fun of British cuisine and teeth...

The fact that being from one of those countries and living in Finland, does not make you part of an exclusive club, since most people understand more or less where you're coming from and what are typical Brit/Yank/Aussie/etc like... Whereas Estonians have their own shops, Russians have their own regular bars etc... And the Irish pubs are frequented more by locals than just the Irish, English pubs been here for years etc. It's not like Yanks would wanna hang out in McDonalds to meet up other Yanks... or Brits sit around Rody's barber shop drinking tea and killing time, whereas this is very common in lot of the African cultures.

[sammy]

Roberto just made the big move to Finland!
http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=72997

The Hot Blonde Syndrom
http://www.grapheine.com/classiktv/clas ... p?id=49158

/Paul

Ah feck, I almost fell off me chair! I didn't remember how hilarious those were!

[Hank W.]

Since there are a lot of non-Finnish-speaking people in Finland,

All... 10? 100? 10 000? A fly farting in Sahara, may fart a lot for a fly - nevertheless it is a flys fart in Sahara.

[enk]

Although I think Jason referred to English, I do hear what you're saying and I do agree. I guess then those migrants should be doing the same (I've no idea if there are Somali entrepeneurs running cleaning companies or Russians opening restaurants, but maybe they should be).

At least one of the bigger companies supplying bus drivers is owned
by a Somali. And as for other companies owned by foreigners, most
of the time the people have been here since the Recession, when they
were forced to open up their own businesses due to a lack of business
prospects. The major problem though is that, for the most part, we "blend
in". We sucked up and learned Finnish, so to most foreigners, we're
"Finns" and to Finns, we're "foreigners". For instance, a number of clothing
stores look "Finnish" as they employ Finns, they have Finns as customers,
etc., but in reality they are owned by foreigners.

-enk

[karel]

I am very well eductaed and have worked successfully in my field for years,

Me too. Very well educated and over 15 years of experience in my field.
Got to Finland, sent out about 500 letters, got about 20 replies.
That's how it goes here.

Real time example of my situation, when I'd just come to Finland:
Job ad on mol.fi. I write an e-mail, include my cv. About 15 minutes after I sent my cv I get a phone call from that very company.
"XX speaking."
"Hi, this is XXX from XXX. I just received your email with cv. Very good CV. It's sofar the best CV we've received from about 75 applicants. There's one but, however... How's your Finnish?"
"Ummm... Well... I've been here for three months. I manage in the grocery store, but that's about how far my Finnish goes at the moment. But I'm learning fast and I'm following courses at the summer university!"
"Well, I'm terribly sorry, but then we can't offer you the job. We require fluent Finnish."
"..."

So... See? This is not exaggerated. Apart from the XXs in the text, this was literally how it went.
And "my" field is mainly English orientated. The most relevant things to know in this particular job, a full-color printer position, were colors, which I new, PMS codes and numbers. The buttons and handles on the machines show symbols for their functions, in order to make the use faster and easier. And really, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on are the same in most of the languages. Still it was not enough.


You know what most of the foreigners do?
1) Marry a rich chick
2) Marry a chick that has a job, get some kids and become a house father
3) Break up with the Finnish chick and leave Finland
4) Start your own business


Pick the one that applies best to your situation.
Don't nag on the negative responses. People here are trying to give you an impression of the REAL life in Finland. It's not easy and it's not exaggerated. It's the truth.
Without Finnish you're screwed in the Finnish society, unless you get into a multinational like Nokia.
Without a network of contacts you're screwed in the Finnish society.

Period. Full stop.

People here are not bad people. They've been tested by the Finnish society and are telling you their experiences.

[FFCBOY]

Jason all i can say is you have to come and see for yourself mate, some people are lucky they come over here not speaking any Finnish find a job and live happily ever after..
Others come over full to the brim with qualifications learn basic to good finnish and still have trouble finding a job..
The only way to get a job for sure here is being a geeky computer programmer then it dont matter if you speak any or never intend to.