Is Finnish a difficult language to learn?

[EP]

There is a list of languages sorted according to the difficulty for a native English speaker, and how long it aproximately takes to learn them:


Category I: Languages closely related to English
23-24 weeks (575-600 class hours)

Afrikaans
Danish
Dutch
French
Italian
Norwegian
Portuguese
Romanian
Spanish
Swedish

Category II: Languages with significant linguistic
and/or cultural differences from English
44 weeks (1100 class hours)

* Languages preceded by asterisks are typically somewhat more difficult for native English speakers to learn than other languages in the same category.

Albanian
Amharic
Armenian
Azerbaijani
Bengali
Bosnian
Bulgarian
Burmese
Croatian
Czech
*Estonian
*Finnish
*Georgian
Greek
Hebrew
Hindi
*Hungarian
Icelandic
Khmer
Lao
Latvian
Lithuanian
Macedonian
*Mongolian
Nepali
Pashto
Persian (Dari, Farsi, Tajik)
Polish
Russian
Serbian
Sinhalese
Slovak
Slovenian
Tagalog
*Thai
Turkish
Ukrainian
Urdu
Uzbek
*Vietnamese
Xhosa
Zulu

Category III: Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
88 weeks (second year of study in-country)
(2200 class hours)

Arabic
Cantonese
Mandarin
*Japanese
Korean

Other languages

German
30 weeks (750 class hours)

Indonesian, Malaysian, Swahili
36 weeks (900 class hours)

[Karhunkoski]

and how long it aproximately takes to learn them:

Interesting stuff EP, but would be interested to know what you/they mean by "learn them"......I don't know any of us who managed to learn Finnish in 44 weeks, it took much, much longer.

It is quite possible to learn the grammar within that time, but not possible to learn the language,

[EP]

I didn´t really read the whole thing, so I don´t know what they mean by "learning". The whole thing is from some US government page, but I have seen the list also somewhere else.

[incster]

Here is the link to the page under discussion. It discusses what is meant by "learning the language".

http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/novembe ... tions.html

This gives some context for the quoted times to learn the language:

It must be kept in mind that that students at FSI are almost 40 years old, are native speakers of English. and have a good aptitude for formal language study, plus knowledge of several other foreign languages. They study in small classes of no more than 6. Their schedule calls for 25 hours of class per week with 3-4 hours per day of directed self-study.

[Karhunkoski]

Ah, so not really representative of your average immigrant on a government-run Finnish language programme then....

[Hank W.]

Has anyone actually learned Finnish on those government courses?

[SaxonManFinland]

I doubt there are many mature foreigners who will ever reach a high level of written Finnish, but then that is true for most languages. 20 years in Finland, and you will read and speak brilliantly. Many technical, legal words phrases will be over your head, but then that also is true for most other languages.

The Eskimos have 50 different words for SNOW. Just be thankful you do not have to learn that language. BTW They are all Technically SWEAR WORDS.

In case anyone takes this as genuine, no it isn't, absolute piffle. Not 50 words for snow, an old myth, and actually, I think "Eskimo" isn't actually a language...

Well Bugger me. Wife just read it on the BBC website, where they gave the "CLOSE" English equivalents. Who can you trust these days , when even the Escimos are deprived of their Slang words. Just checked their dictionary and I WAS WRONG. The Yupik language alone there are ONLY 32 WORDS that refer to Snow or Snow Conditions, of course as the Nation speak 5 different languages they may well have another 18 words outside that refer to Snow or Snow Conditions. As Inuit is the MOST COMMONLY spoken I am sure you will find them. Just so you do not take it TOOOOOOOO SERIOUSELY there are at LEAST 22 Versions of the Word Snow in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Must be a slow day, sitting out there in Hair splitting Land.

Happy Now !!!!!

[SaxonManFinland]

Has anyone actually learned Finnish on those government courses?

I attended 2 complete courses. ALL Taught in Finnish Only.

Of the other 48 students MOST had been in Finland 3 to 7 years. Maybe 6 just arrived (like me)

Those who had some idea, did best, those who were most determined did better, and the rest started to understand the grammer.

2 Even achieved a REAL certificate of competency. One (A Masters Language Student) could really understand the RULES, but could never be understood, as she was Chinese.

For the rest, an improvement, but massive frustration, simply because it was too complex, too quickly and just teaching the Childrens Basics would have been better

[Karhunkoski]

Anyone heard recently, there are at least 15 different words referring to "house" in Finnish, shocking revelation, even for the Inuit.

Not slow at all Saxon, just aware of common myths.

[TampereOwl]

- once your grammar skills are getting more advanced, try reading newspapers and magazines, choosing one on a topic that interests you will help. Don't try to do this too soon though as it will frustrate the hell out of you if you don't know how to break an inflected, consonant graduated word down into it's basic form so you can look it up in a dictionary (you will have noticed that "mäellä" is not in the dictionary, you need enough grammar to know that you should remove the "llä", then change the "e" to an "i" and then add a "k" in there just after the first ä, so you can then look "mäki" up in the dictionary ). You could of course have started by looking through all words that start with "mä", but that would be plain silly.

Does anyone know a Finnish online dictionary that at least helps out a little bit in this regard?

The Swedish dictionary I use kicks the living !"#¤% out of all the Finnish ones I've tried. Try a few finnish tenses in the Lexin one to see what I mean (the problem being that it only works Swedish-Finnish).

[Karhunkoski]

Has anyone actually learned Finnish on those government courses?

It depends on the definition of "learned" I guess, however if you supplement the course with generous amounts of evening self-study, media-absorption and copious amounts of practice with a native, it is quite possible.

In my opinion, those government courses can be merely a a soup stone

[blaugrau]

I think part of the problem -- and now I start with some sweeping generalizations -- is that English native speakers in general aren't very used to learning any foreign languages -- not their personal fault, I'd say, because e.g in the UK, education officials haven't been too interested in promoting language teaching, and the way languages are taught in the UK (from what I've seen working in a few schools there) isn't the best way (more emphasis on teaching pupils to learn set phrases by heart than teaching grammar and teaching how to use the language independently; this is mostly due to the fact that the exam design doesn't really reward such creative use of the language, at least in my opinion).

My point is: some or many English speakers I met often overestimated their own level in foreign langauges, because they mistook the few touristy phrases they know (e.g. in German or French) for "knowing" the langauge "to some extent". By the same token, I think they underestimate the amount of work and the level of dedication that is needed to really learn a foreign langauge, and it comes as quite a shock to them, which makes them give up too easily.

So the problem for English speakers already starts there where they expect or hope foreign langauge acquisition to be "easy". Forget it. It's nothing to do with Finnish even; yes, that language knows one or two tricks more, but you won't learn German or French either to a fluent level if you don't put EFFORT and dedication into it. And another bit of bad news: until you know a language to a somewhat fluent level, it's pretty much USELESS, at least for other than tourist-purposes.

Learning languages isn't some kind of service where you walk into a course and expect that's that, going to the course will teach me the language. You have to do the work yourself, the course is just an additional means and something that helps to impose a regularity on the learning process, but you still have to do the work yourself! It's pretty useless to blame the teacher or their methods if you don't put in any effort. And personally I find it really quite strange that for some the simple fact of living in Finland isn't enough motivation to learn the local language, at least I myself don't want to be the eternal outsider in whatever goes on in the country. It's true that in some sense you'll always be a foreigner, but then I'd rather be someone who can at least understand as well as part-take what's going around me, during the lunch hour with my workmates as well as on a national level. I don't understand that some seem to prefer self-isolation. And whether or not the other people around me speak my language in my mind doesn't have anything to do with my learning of the local language...

[TampereOwl]

I think there's a lot of truth in what blaugrau says, but I also think those lists upthread understate the case, and resent Gustav Vasa for being such a pussy and failing to adequately 're-educate' the natives.....

[Hank W.]

And personally I find it really quite strange that for some the simple fact of living in Finland isn't enough motivation to learn the local language, at least I myself don't want to be the eternal outsider in whatever goes on in the country. It's true that in some sense you'll always be a foreigner, but then I'd rather be someone who can at least understand as well as part-take what's going around me

Well, Swedish is an option... maybe a "useless" language in a sense, but getting through the bureaucracy, reading the news, etc. if it helps life a bit. The thing about the things going on in the country. OK, so theres some third-rate translations of 10 rows in YLE, the HS has the International Edition - but it has only maybe 1 in 50 articles of the print version, so unless you watch wank read the news in the morning you get a... slightly skewed view of "whats going on" in Finland. The HS for example naturally concentrates on "foreigner-interest" so it might seem that the only news there are is negative... or that "issues" aren't discussed. When the "discussion" is done or has been done ages ago... the thing is of course "you heard it only now" and "nobody tells you things everybody knows" The language barrier can thus also create a cultural barrier.

[SaxonManFinland]

Anyone heard recently, there are at least 15 different words referring to "house" in Finnish, shocking revelation, even for the Inuit.

Not slow at all Saxon, just aware of common myths.

Then you accept the Inuit Nation have more than 50 words for Snow or Snow based objects, which afterall is what I flippantly refered to. (Courtesy of BBC)

The Myth of the number of words for Snow is based on several (I was going to say 2 but was sure someone would point out my error) documents which claim over 100 or even 200 words, and are both a laugh, inventing words for "Snow sold to American Tourists" "Snow sold in Cans to Japanese Tourists" "Melted Snow" (Water) etc etc etc, both written with humour.

Lets have a competition and see who knows all 22 English words connected with Snow.