Swedish speaking areas in Finland

[Upphew]

But people who want its official status also be revoked are in small minority.

Imho the official status should be checked too. Not removed. How many border guards and customs officials will handle Finnish and Swedish and English and Russian? With current wages? First three are mandatory, even on eastern border, where (again imho) the fourth should be... well maybe the second requirement after Finnish.

[justaguy]

To be honest I really like the Swedish language, and having been to Åland and Turku and many other Swedish speaking areas in my time here, I've come to find it quite nice when a Finn can speak excellent, or native Swedish. As a non-native I don't really understand why there's quite a bit of animosity towards the language, especially when it comes to being accepted as a second official one. Though I do not see all the Swedish labels and signs being changed any time soon. Honestly I'm sure what ever the reasons, there would only be selfish and quite stupid reasons for trying to remove the language as a country-wide official language.

I say the more languages you know, the more enrichment you can get out of life.

[Honest]

I say the more languages you know, the more enrichment you can get out of life.

Let's make English and Russian official as well.


It takes a lot of resources to translate (publish) everything in more languages and to do it just for 5% people doesn't make much sense. Only reason to retain Swedish as an official language could be to keep the tradition or because of history, otherwise there is not much to argue about it.

And Turku is not a Swedish speaking city. There are only 5-6% Swedish speakers here and many of them are bilingual.

[llewellyn]

Only reason to retain Swedish as an official language could be to keep the tradition or because of history, otherwise there is not much to argue about it.

I guess I'm mega-oldfashioned here, but for me those kinds of reasons are hugely important, that is, tradition and history. I would also add culture. Anyway, I'm glad that the campaign has not even reached "pakkoruotsi". In itself, I don't much care, but one senses that it's only the first step of many for these awfully intense people, and I have no interest in seeing the next ones. So, better stop them by that already.

[foca]

But people who want its official status also be revoked are in small minority.

Imho the official status should be checked too. Not removed. How many border guards and customs officials will handle Finnish and Swedish and English and Russian? With current wages? First three are mandatory, even on eastern border, where (again imho) the fourth should be... well maybe the second requirement after Finnish.

I cross the border perhaps 30 times a year. it was only once that I saw a Swedish speaking border patrol officer. But he also spoke good French, English and passable Spanish. That was really unusual ....
I often hear that Swedish should be exchanged for English. but these languages are complimentary and so similar that in essence learning them together is making the whole process much easier.

[onkko]

But people who want its official status also be revoked are in small minority.

Imho the official status should be checked too. Not removed. How many border guards and customs officials will handle Finnish and Swedish and English and Russian? With current wages? First three are mandatory, even on eastern border, where (again imho) the fourth should be... well maybe the second requirement after Finnish.

I cross the border perhaps 30 times a year. it was only once that I saw a Swedish speaking border patrol officer. But he also spoke good French, English and passable Spanish. That was really unusual ....
I often hear that Swedish should be exchanged for English. but these languages are complimentary and so similar that in essence learning them together is making the whole process much easier.

You miss that swedish is mandatory, no excuses or even need it just is mandatory for all few swedes who cross border....
Swedish is not really mandatory in eastern border (if you think outside of law), russian and english are. Thanks to education laws russian is not in real option because you have to learn swedish.
And your "complimentary"... we should learn spanish instead of swedish then?

[Upphew]

but these languages are complimentary and so similar that in essence learning them together is making the whole process much easier.

Two words: bull, !"#¤%. Iirc my usual grades in English classes were 8 and 9 (in 4 to 10 scale). Swedish was way below that, I'd say it was my first 6 that I got from Swedish. My high school average in Swedish was below 5.

[foca]

but these languages are complimentary and so similar that in essence learning them together is making the whole process much easier.

Two words: bull, !"#¤%. Iirc my usual grades in English classes were 8 and 9 (in 4 to 10 scale). Swedish was way below that, I'd say it was my first 6 that I got from Swedish. My high school average in Swedish was below 5.

there no reason to contradict facts of life. English in essence is simplified Scandinavian with a French overlap over it. linguistically it is so. Verb system is identical, personal pronoun application is very similar, I 'd say 50 or even more percent of words are the same.... we can continue , if you want. If you take it seriously then you may understand how two languages developed , for example , I recently read a study on middle English which was centered on how Scandinavian verbs att bli and att vara, along with Germanic weren came to be present day are, was and were in this day English. The problem is that it is hard to establish the similarity on the beginners level, especially if one may never use Swedish that one learned at school.

[Rip]

As a non-native I don't really understand why there's quite a bit of animosity towards the language

Well, there must be several thousand that thought that way every year in school, in the mandatory Swedish language classes (there 50 000+ in the age group, I care not to try to estimate more accurately how many of them strongly detest it.)
(I did well, more or less even liked it)

My personal top irritation is when occasionally a Swedish (Swedish like in Stockholm) politician considers his business to get involved in the language question, somehow managing to completely ignore the fact that the legal position of Swedish in Finland is far stronger than Finnish in Sweden (and it would be even if the compulsory education in schools would be scrapped) and apparently not yet even receiving the message that they lost the war 200 year ago.

say the more languages you know, the more enrichment you can get out of life.

But it very hard to make the argument that the Swedish language would be the most enriching of them all.

[Bavarian]

there no reason to contradict facts of life. English in essence is simplified Scandinavian with a French overlap over it. linguistically it is so.

Linguistically English and the Scandinavian languages both developed from the same thing that produced German, with English going off in one direction and the Scandinavian languages going off in another direction fairly early. As a speaker of English and German I find Dutch rather easier to parse than any of the Scandinavian languages (I don't speak Dutch or the Scandinavian languages) based on its relative closeness to German. If English is simplified anything (and I'm sure the Finns here who have struggled trying to learn English love hearing that English is "simplified"), it's simplified Old German.

[Bavarian]

My personal top irritation is when occasionally a Swedish (Swedish like in Stockholm) politician considers his business to get involved in the language question, somehow managing to completely ignore the fact that the legal position of Swedish in Finland is far stronger than Finnish in Sweden (and it would be even if the compulsory education in schools would be scrapped) and apparently not yet even receiving the message that they lost the war 200 year ago.

To be fair, weren't most of the Swedish-speakers in what is now Finland there centuries before there was a real Finland, while many of the Finns in Sweden (other than the Meankieli speakers) much more recent emigres? Not that the politicians should be sticking their noses in another country's affairs like that, of course.

[llewellyn]

To be fair, weren't most of the Swedish-speakers in what is now Finland there centuries before there was a real Finland, while many of the Finns in Sweden (other than the Meankieli speakers) much more recent emigres? Not that the politicians should be sticking their noses in another country's affairs like that, of course.

I don't really see the point of that distinction - it certainly is annoying that Sweden with its age old one nation one language -policy every now and then seeks to lecture Finland about linguistic tolerance... And of the course their trash media loves to portray Finland as semi-Chechnya or something, like presenting a totally ludicrous view of the situation between Finnish and Swedish speakers here. So, Sweden is often not helping the moderate majority of Finland but it is good to see the that the Finnish political elite still seems to be totally adamant in defending the status of Swedish. (I think that even Timo Soini would not do much more than his regular hot air routine if in government.)

[Upphew]

but these languages are complimentary and so similar that in essence learning them together is making the whole process much easier.

Two words: bull, !"#¤%. Iirc my usual grades in English classes were 8 and 9 (in 4 to 10 scale). Swedish was way below that, I'd say it was my first 6 that I got from Swedish. My high school average in Swedish was below 5.

there no reason to contradict facts of life. English in essence is simplified Scandinavian with a French overlap over it. linguistically it is so. Verb system is identical, personal pronoun application is very similar, I 'd say 50 or even more percent of words are the same.... we can continue , if you want. If you take it seriously then you may understand how two languages developed , for example , I recently read a study on middle English which was centered on how Scandinavian verbs att bli and att vara, along with Germanic weren came to be present day are, was and were in this day English. The problem is that it is hard to establish the similarity on the beginners level, especially if one may never use Swedish that one learned at school.

Yup, when I didn't remember word in Swedish I put English one in there. 0 points, failed test. Oh how helpful that likeness of English and Swedish was, NOT. So what the 7 years of Swedish classes did? Made me detest that language. Caused irritation and stress (if you fail this course, you'll have to do the whole year again).

[foca]

Yup, when I didn't remember word in Swedish I put English one in there. 0 points, failed test. Oh how helpful that likeness of English and Swedish was, NOT. So what the 7 years of Swedish classes did? Made me detest that language. Caused irritation and stress (if you fail this course, you'll have to do the whole year again).

I:) I am afraid it does not work that easy. one has to put an effort into any language. it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure that the subject in question is interesting for pupils. many things that one learns in school will be happily forgotten and/or never used in the future life. but still I feel sorry for your experience with Swedish.....

[onkko]

My personal top irritation is when occasionally a Swedish (Swedish like in Stockholm) politician considers his business to get involved in the language question, somehow managing to completely ignore the fact that the legal position of Swedish in Finland is far stronger than Finnish in Sweden (and it would be even if the compulsory education in schools would be scrapped) and apparently not yet even receiving the message that they lost the war 200 year ago.

To be fair, weren't most of the Swedish-speakers in what is now Finland there centuries before there was a real Finland, while many of the Finns in Sweden (other than the Meankieli speakers) much more recent emigres? Not that the politicians should be sticking their noses in another country's affairs like that, of course.

I dont know about any studies but in northern sweden i would say we had wrong river as border on 1808. My mother worked in northern sweden as nurse and there were/are old finns who didnt/dont speak swedish and no one their parents or grandparents did and they have lived there "since one remembers". They were there centuries before sweden.
Today swedes call their language "meänkieli" and even i withouth any formal or informal education about that i can tell its similar dialect what we finns have other side of border. I could talk with them withouth any major problem, some of the words were loans from swedish and that was minor problem but asking them tho "rephrase" helped.
Meänkieli is totally political decision to reduce amount of finns in sweden.
4,9% of sweden either spoke or understood finnish and 1,7% meänkieltä. Even if we count overlap its bigger than swedish in finland.