Learning this language....

Learn and discuss the Finnish language with Finn's and foreigners alike
sammy
Posts: 7313
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Re: Learning this language....

Post by sammy » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:07 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:
sammy wrote:
kalmisto wrote:we could call him "Wacky Walt" which is very close to "väkivalta" [...] The crazier your associations are the easier they are to remember.
That must be the most hallucinogenic 'memory aid' I've heard for a while
Similar wildly associative mnemonics-forming techniques are often recommended in various sources. I know someone who recently attended to a lecture where the speaker first shook hands with everybody at the door, then asked their names, and later on recalled them all exactly right. He used very unlikely and absurd associations to connect the names to the facial features of each person.
Yeah, don't get me wrong - I just found the example hilariously odd myself! Just goes to show how people have wildly different learning strategies! :)



Re: Learning this language....

Sponsor:

Finland Forum Ad-O-Matic
 

User avatar
onkko
Posts: 4826
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:24 am
Location: kemijärvi

Re: Learning this language....

Post by onkko » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:08 pm

Jukka Aho wrote: Similar wildly associative mnemonics-forming techniques are often recommended in various sources. I know someone who recently attended to a lecture where the speaker first shook hands with everybody at the door, then asked their names, and later on recalled them all exactly right. He used very unlikely and absurd associations to connect the names to the facial features of each person.
I should learn that too, i cant remember names at all. I can remember even after 15 years how to drive to my cousins house (did that, drive to tampere centre and 10km from there, just by memory) and draw most of his houses "pohjapiirrustus" but i cant remember name of street after 10secs. Seems my brain filters names out as unnecessary information.
And im shamed when people talk about books/movies... if i can get that book/movie and look in it i can tell what happens but dont ask names.. :)
People are different :)
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:35 pm

>> Yeah, don't get me wrong - I just found the example hilariously odd myself! Just goes to show how people have wildly different learning strategies! :) <<

"The "hilariously odd", strange and crazy associations are the easiest to remember. And it does not matter if they are far-fetched because the far-fetched associations work too, at least they do for me.

User avatar
Pursuivant
Posts: 15089
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am
Location: Bath & Wells

Re: Learning this language....

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:45 pm

just like I remember what is "kippis" in Russian - "nastoja rouvia"
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:52 pm

Pursuivant wrote:and väkijuoma can be associated with Finnish Grammar
Tolkien would certainly agree with you. He could get a very cheap high. All he needed was a Finnish grammar book :wink: : http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/vice.htm

"But there were more pleasures in store for young Tolkien. One day he found...a Finnish grammar!!! He soon found himself in phonaesthetic ecstasy. "It was like discovering a complete wine-cellar filled with bottles of an amazing wine of a kind and flavour never tasted before. It quite intoxicated me" (Letters:214). High on Finnish he scrapped his latest project ("make your own Germanic language"), for now he had found more powerful inspirations. "

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Learning this language....

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:25 am

onkko wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote:attended to a lecture where the speaker first shook hands with everybody at the door, then asked their names, and later on recalled them all exactly right.
I should learn that too, i cant remember names at all. I can remember even after 15 years how to drive to my cousins house (did that, drive to tampere centre and 10km from there, just by memory) and draw most of his houses "pohjapiirrustus" but i cant remember name of street after 10secs. Seems my brain filters names out as unnecessary information.
If I recall correctly, one of the memory-enhancing techniques he used was looking at the “target” person for a moment while imagining there are “mnemonic objects” – somehow related to their name – hanging off or attached to their face, or even hovering about their body.

For example, if a mustached person’s name is Juuso Vasaravuori [1], the lecturer might have imagined they have a hammer for a mustache and that pimple on their forehead is, obviously, a huge mountain. In order to recall the first name, he’d further imagine therẹ’s a big block of cheese bobbing about the top of that person’s head... since the words juusto and Juuso just kind of resemble each other.

When he meets that person again, he still can’t remember the name outright, but in his mind’s eye, he sees that hammer and mountain and block of cheese, and can recall (or deduce) it all from that...

_____
[1] A made-up sample name for the purpose of illustration. Vasara = “a hammer”, vuori = “a mountain”.
znark

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:08 pm

Various memory techniques and strategies are presented here :
http://www.web-us.com/MEMORY/improving_memory.htm


>> When learning something new and unfamiliar, try pairing it with something you know very well, such as images, puns, music, whatever. The association does not have to make logical sense. Often times it is associations that are particularly vivid humorous, or silly that stay in your mind. Some people remember names this way. For example, they may remember the name "Robert Green" by picturing Robert playing golf (on the green), wearing green clothes, or covered in green paint. Or suppose for your anatomy course you have to recall names of the veins in the human body, and the first one on the list is "pancreatic" followed by "right gastroepipeloic" and "left gastroepipeloic" and so on. You can picture a frying pan being creative--maybe painting a picture with bright paints and bold strokes. If the frying pan is working in a studio, picture gas pipes with little padlocks on them (gastroepipeloic) in the left and right studio corners.... <<

sammy
Posts: 7313
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Re: Learning this language....

Post by sammy » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:When he meets that person again, he still can’t remember the name outright, but in his mind’s eye, he sees that hammer and mountain and block of cheese, and can recall (or deduce) it all from that...
I see what you mean, but still... I can't help but wonder why he fails to remember the name but still apparently easily "sees" or "recalls" the hammer and the mountain and the block of cheese? I mean, why should he remember just those particular (imaginary) objects? What if, instead, he remembers an enormous pit full of celery sandwiches, with a herd of cows building a summer cottage in the background?

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Learning this language....

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:41 pm

sammy wrote:I see what you mean, but still... I can't help but wonder why he fails to remember the name but still apparently easily "sees" or "recalls" the hammer and the mountain and the block of cheese? I mean, why should he remember just those particular (imaginary) objects? What if, instead, he remembers an enormous pit full of celery sandwiches, with a herd of cows building a summer cottage in the background?
Probably not, unless he has already imagined those particular items or creatures on some other person and mixes things up.

As for why he wouldn’t mix up things, then, I don’t know the answer to that one, but I believe it is just how our brains work: it is easier to attach “visual mnemonics” – however weird – to a visual memory of someone’s face than connect that face directly to an arbitrary name (since names are rather abstract things, after all.)
znark

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm

>> As for why he wouldn’t mix up things, then, I don’t know the answer to that one, but I believe it is just how our brains work: ... <<

No-one knows how for instance memories of people´s faces are stored in our brains. For me the most important thing is not to know why a certain memory techique works, the main thing is that it works.

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:27 pm

Pursuivant wrote:just like I remember what is "kippis" in Russian - "nastoja rouvia"
The Finnish word for "moonshine" is http://osheep.notlong.com and that is of course very appropriate because if you drink too much of it it could "kill you".
:wink:

User avatar
sinikala
Posts: 4999
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:10 pm
Location: Pori, Finland

Re: Learning this language....

Post by sinikala » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:38 pm

sammy wrote:I see what you mean, but still... I can't help but wonder why he fails to remember the name but still apparently easily "sees" or "recalls" the hammer and the mountain and the block of cheese? I mean, why should he remember just those particular (imaginary) objects? What if, instead, he remembers an enormous pit full of celery sandwiches, with a herd of cows building a summer cottage in the background?
I get what you mean.

Mnemonics can be used effectively, most English people know one of "Richard of York gave battle in Vain" or "Roy Orbison's yacht goes best in Vancouver"

Many who did O-Level maths at school will know that "some officers have curly auburn hair till old age" and I still remember some that medic friends told me at Uni... e.g. "two Zulus buggered my cat" for nerves in the face... (though I don't remember the names of the nerves to which they correspond).

But to make up a mnemonic on the fly and later recall it from visual clues... that would take a talent which is beyond most of us, and as a memory aid, pretty close to useless for the vast majority of us, especially in a class full of Jorma Virtanens, Nieminens etc. Simple repetition is the best way to learn peoples names, say someone's name out loud a few times whilst looking at them and it will usually stick.
Image

Upphew
Posts: 10748
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Learning this language....

Post by Upphew » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:50 pm

kalmisto wrote:
Pursuivant wrote:just like I remember what is "kippis" in Russian - "nastoja rouvia"
The Finnish word for "moonshine" is http://osheep.notlong.com and that is of course very appropriate because if you drink too much of it it could "kill you".
:wink:
I wouldn't say kilju to be moonshine, unless distilled at least once.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

kalmisto
Posts: 3315
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 9:41 am
Contact:

Re: Learning this language....

Post by kalmisto » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:22 pm

>> I wouldn't say kilju to be moonshine, unless distilled at least once. <<

You are right. "Kilju" can be refined into "pontikka" by means of distillation and "pontikka" is the Finnish word for "moonshine".

tla
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: Espoo

Re: Learning this language....

Post by tla » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:14 pm

hey, Thanks again to everyone who replied with advice and sympathy! I really do appreciate it. I WILL learn this language!


Post Reply