Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

[Russian]

By the way, do our books lie about Finland siding with fascist Germany in WWII as well?

Do your books tell how you supported fascist Germany to raise to power, made possible for German rearmament, aided it in its war efforts, and started the 2nd world war by invading Poland?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-Sov ... _Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet-German_cooperation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_inv ... %281939%29

Without the necessary supplies from the USSR and strategic security in the East, Germany could not have succeeded in the West. Had the Soviet Union joined the Anglo-French blockade, the German war economy would have soon collapsed. With its own raw materials as of September 1939, Germany could have only been supplied for mere 9 to 12 months. From the start of the war until Germany invaded the Soviet Union less than two years later, Stalin supplied Hitler with 1.5 million tons of oil, the same quantity of grain, and many thousands of tons of rubber, timber, phosphates, iron, and other valuable metal ores, particularly chromium, manganese, and platinum. At the time of the invasion, Nazi Germany was heavily in debt to the Soviet Union.

We can discuss that right after we finish with the subject of Russia protecting St. Petersburg after Finland had attacked twice...

[antstar]

friendly Finn onkko

Goddammit, that was hilarious
Im unfriendliest of unfriendlty finns. just to make point that finland isnt nice place (it can be if you manage to be finnish)
Im not really that bad but i exaggarate to make my point. Finnish are xenophile and racists, we hate russians and partly germans. we dont trust to others so being foreign is hard in finland (exaggrated but there is fact back of this). i wont lie about it and wont try to change a fact.
Foreigner.. let me think. Foreigner is something i look with curiousity. If you want to live in finland then well its something you can do as long you dont push your beliefs to us. i dont care about foreigners if they dont bother me, easy as that.
I dont really care where youre from if you dont bother me.
I have friend from turkey and someone in family from india, i dont care.
Main thing what im saying is that this is finland, adapt or depart

Your unfriendy finn

I see your in Tampere, where abouts? maybe i have visited your local bar? next time i'll buy you a beer, Finnish beer of course, non of that expensive foriegn crap!

[Hank W.]

We can discuss that right after we finish with the subject of Russia protecting St. Petersburg after Finland had attacked twice...

And Finland had NOT attacked USSR, not even once, as is plainly stated in the evidence, and even it had the insurgency in the Karelian SSR was nowhere near St.Petersburg. And if you care to read - Finns fought on *both* sides of the insurgency, so again you cannot say it was "Finland" that attacked. And USSR was fighting a civil war still at the time on other fronts as well. By 1932 the situation had normalized so that the non-aggression pact was formed. Again - when exactly did "Finland" attack the USSR?

In 1939 Finland was a non-alligned nation with a non-aggression pact which posed no threat to the USSR - USSR on the other hand harbored Finnish rebels - the few that were still alive after the purges of 1935-37 - and at the first day of the war set up a puppet government. How do you add up "protection of Leningrad" with "invasion of a country. Same as what happened with Estonia? Or did Estonia also "attack USSR"? Or what excuse warranted that invasion?

[Russian]

Are you taught reading comprehension? The Finnish government disallowed support to the Karelian insurgency

Well that is what finnish books say. Why do the russian books lie but finnish books tell truth?
At least this article says government did not object that much...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet-Fin ... n_Uprising

and that was in Karelian SSSR which is nowhere close to Leningrad.

What? Let me return this to you, are you taught geography?

Besides which Finland and USSR had a new non-aggression pact in 1932.

I thought we were talking about finnish attacks in 1920s?

And how exactly could the Finnish army with its meager resources pose any kind of threat to the USSR? 250,000 men, 30 tanks, 130 aircraft???

But the attacks were real. Does it matter in the discussion if Russia was right to protect St. Petersburg?
Finland tried to attack Russia a few times. Russia feared Finland could side with someone, and surprise, it did exactly that in WWII.

[Hank W.]

Why do the russian books lie but finnish books tell truth?.

Because the authors are liars. USSR is known to have had quite inventive history writing. Like Katyn murders, Mainila artillery... you name it.

At least this article says government did not object that much...

Well there was still a civil war going on, and the Finnish rebels were being harbored in the USSR, who also made insurgent attacks on to the Finnish side of the border, so USSR was attacking Finland as well.

and that was in Karelian SSSR which is nowhere close to Leningrad.

What? Let me return this to you, are you taught geography?

Are you? 1923 Karelian A.S.S.R. With its capital in Petrozavodsk.

Leningrad is nowhere near it, theres the sea of Ladoga in between. And that looks like a patch of Finnish forest there north of it before the ASSR border in the East.

Besides which Finland and USSR had a new non-aggression pact in 1932.

I thought we were talking about finnish attacks in 1920s?

And they are irrelevant to the attack in 1939, as there had been made a peace and a non-aggression pact.

Russia feared Finland could side with someone, and surprise, it did exactly that in WWII.

[/quote]
Of course you have to side with someone , WHEN YOU ARE ALONE AFTER USSR STARTED THE WAR AND INVADED US FIRST AND STOLE OUR TERRITORY. I think it is quite natural to side with someone TO GET BACK WHAT IS STOLEN FROM YOU? Besides which USSR started also in 1942 by bombing Helsinki.

[Russian]

It's a pity that you deleted your first version of reply Hank...
I'll just quote the first sentence:
"Because Russians are liars".
I think this sums everything pretty well...

[Hank W.]

Can't really say "Russian" as USSR was a multinational lie factory. But if the Russian history books still are full of the same communist propaganda lies, then Russians are liars if they know the truth but still publish the same old propaganda from the lying authors. Finnish history books talk openly of the facts now that we don't have the USSR propaganda machinery in our back. Why does Russia not come to terms with the crimes of Stalin? And the fact USSR was an aggressor? They promoted Komintern insurgency in Finland all through the 1930's Maybe it was an aggressor for a percieved cause, but if USSR wanted a "buffer" why does it somehow make it right for USSR to have a buffer and not Finland? Why is it somehow right for USSR to invade its small neighbours? Just because it had better liars writing the history books?

[Russian]

Can't really say "Russian" as USSR was a multinational lie factory. But if the Russian history books still are full of the same communist propaganda lies, then Russians are liars.

I never said my country was a fluffy bunny.
But you cant say that those attacks are irrelevant just because there was a peace treaty after that.
Those attacks were right after Finland had been given freedom. How come Finland had the right to neglect treaties but Russia didnt?

[Hank W.]

Where's Tiwaz? i thought he'd love this kinda thread

On summer holiday I think... have to say I don't really need to play native any more, theres real ones jumping from the bush

[Hank W.]

Can't really say "Russian" as USSR was a multinational lie factory. But if the Russian history books still are full of the same communist propaganda lies, then Russians are liars.

I never said my country was a fluffy bunny.
But you cant say that those attacks are irrelevant just because there was a peace treaty after that.
Those attacks were right after Finland had been given freedom. How come Finland had the right to neglect treaties but Russia didnt?

Not saying its "irrelevant", but it was still during the Russian Civil War. In 1939 USSR started the aggression after the ultimatum of border change failed, and got expelled from the League of Nations. What if Russia now started making such ultimatums? What would the excuse be then?

And Russia did neglect its share of treaties way after the peace accord. I am not saying Finland couldn't have played its cards much wiser.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War#Interwar_period
In the autumn of 1939, the Soviet Union demanded that Finland agree to move the border 25 kilometres (16 mi) back from Leningrad. It also demanded that Finland lease the Hanko Peninsula to the USSR for 30 years for the creation of a naval base there. In exchange, the Soviet Union offered Finland a large part of Karelia (more than twice the size).

Of course being 20/20 hindsight this might have been a wise thing to do. However it would have caused a German invasion, Finland might have gotten incorporated to the USSR like Estonia as we must remember there was still the old comrades:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_De ... c_Republic of the 1918 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_So ... 7_Republic
Who were waiting for a revanche.

If the Finnish government would have known of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, maybe they would have given in. But we must remember Chamberlain and Daladier had negotiated "peace in our time", and the Finnish Government had an illusion that non-alignment and strong ties with other nations would help. After all, The Soviets were mainly concerned that Germany or France and Great Britain would use Finland as a bridgehead for an attack on Leningrad, after all the "Allies" were on a anti-Soviet agenda (as were the Finns) while the Germans were socialists. So there were no choices as a) allying with the USSR would have meant loosing independence, b) allying with UK and France mean anti-soviet and piss off USSR c) allying with Germany would piss off UK and French
So all of which were not good options.

[onkko]

Can't really say "Russian" as USSR was a multinational lie factory. But if the Russian history books still are full of the same communist propaganda lies, then Russians are liars.

I never said my country was a fluffy bunny.
But you cant say that those attacks are irrelevant just because there was a peace treaty after that.
Those attacks were right after Finland had been given freedom. How come Finland had the right to neglect treaties but Russia didnt?

Voi helevetin russä. You are one who invaded finland, you are one who attacked civilians in lapland, you are one to blame.
You are one who killed my grandmothers family, what in hell 6 year old gird did to you? you executed him and his family.
You are one to blame, you attacked and you deserve whatever you got from that attack.
Pietari? oh i really hoped finnish would terminate that whole place, too bad finnish are too kind to do that. Russians are no good non believelable and almost non human.
There is no way anyone rightminded finnish would trust russian.
Buy better books and accept a fact that youre invader.
End of rant, and yes i hate russians.

[EP]

This board used to be quite civilized....

[antstar]

This board used to be quite civilized....

It's just people passing thru, they will disappear as quick as they came!

[Hank W.]

as quick as they came!

Sometimes even premature ejaculation is too slow...

[antstar]

This board used to be quite civilized....

It's just people passing thru, they will disappear as quick as they came!

And then some stay for 29853 (and counting) posts worth.....