Sinuhe 2011

[EP]

But I don't understand kännätköön....I assume you meant kääntäköön...???... "Let Kemi translate"...????

No, it is kännätköön (kännätä = drink to get drunk): And let all of Keminmaa get drunk... Along those lines...

[Rob A.]

But I don't understand kännätköön....I assume you meant kääntäköön...???... "Let Kemi translate"...????

No, it is kännätköön (kännätä = drink to get drunk): And let all of Keminmaa get drunk... Along those lines...

Thanks EP...I should have thought of something like that...and maybe searched a little further...

[Rob A.]

Here's some more Sinuhe...

1. Mutta ennen kuin aloitan kirjani, annan sydämeni valittaa valituksensa, sillä näin valittaa murheesta musta maanpakolaissydämeni.

="But first when I began my book, I allowed my heart to complain its complaints, because in this way, to complain from sorrow my black, exiled heart."
I had some trouble with this last clause...I don't think I quite have the right sense..??

2. Ken on kerran juonut Niilin vettä, hän kaipaa Niilin luokse takaisin. Hänen janoaan ei tyydytä mikään muu mainen vesi.

="Who has at one time drunk the water of the Nile, he yearns to be back at the place of the Nile. His thirst is not satisfied by any other land's water."
No trouble with this...These days the word, Kuka would be used rather than, Ken.

3. Ken on kerran Thebassa syntynyt, hän kaipaa Thebaan takaisin, sillä ei ole maan päällä toista kaupunkia, Theban kaltaista. Ken on kujan varrella syntynyt, hän kaipaa kujalle takaisin, seetripuupalatsista hän kaipaa takaisin savimajaan, myrhan ja hyvien voiteiden tuoksusta hän kaipaa lantatulen ja öljyssä paistettujen kalojen käryyn.

="Who was at one time born in Thebes, he yearns to be back in Thebes, because no other city on Earth is like Thebes. Who was born along a laneway, he yearns to be back in the laneway, from a cedar wood palace he yearns to be back in a clay hut, from the smell of myrrh and fine ointments he yearns for the smell of dung fires and oil-fried fish."

I think I have this down OK...

4. Kultaisen maljani vaihtaisin köyhän saviruukkuun, jos kerran vielä saisin polkea jalallani Kemin maan pehmeätä mutaa. Pellavavaatteeni vaihtaisin orjan paahtuneeseen nahkaan, jos kerran vielä saisin kuulla virran kaislikon kohinan kevättuulessa.

="My golden goblets I would replace with the clay jar of the poor, if one time more I could stamp by my foot the Land of Kem's soft mud. My linen clothing I would replace with a slave's sunburned skin, if one more time I could hear the noise of the river's reed bed in the spring wind."

A bit of trouble with the phrase, polkea jalallani...I think I have it right ..????

5. Niili tulvii, jalokivinä kohoavat kaupungit vihreästä vedestä, pääskyset palaavat, kurjet kahlaavat liejussa, mutta minä olen poissa. Miksi en ole pääskynen, miksi en ole kurki väkevin siivin lentääkseni vartijoiden ohitse takaisin Kemin maahan?

="The Nile floods, as gemstones the cities rise from the green water, swallows return, cranes wade in the mud, but I am away. Why am I not a swallow, why am I not a crane along with strong wings in order for me to fly past the guards, back to the Land of Kem?"

I think I have this worked out...??

6. Pesäni rakentaisin Ammonin kirjavien pylväiden keskelle, obeliskien leimutessa tulta ja kultaa, vihkisavun ja lihavien uhriteuraiden tuoksussa. Pesäni rakentaisin köyhien kujan savimajan katolle. Härät kiskovat rekiä, käsityöläiset liimaavat kaislasta paperia, kauppiaat huutavat kaupaksi tavaroitaan, kuoriainen kierittää lantapalloa pitkin kivettyä katua.

="My nest I would build among Ammon's colourful columns, along with obelisks blazing fire and gold, in the smell of wedding smoke and slaughter victim's flesh. My nest I would build poors' laneway to roof of clay hut. Oxen pull sleds, hand crafts artisans glue reed paper, shopkeepers shout as selling their goods."

A couple of problems here:

a. köyhien kujan savimajan katolle ...I can't quite figure this out...??
b. huutavat kaupaksi tavaroitaan... and this ..."shout while selling their goods."...???

7. Kirkas oli nuoruuteni vesi, suloinen oli hulluuteni. Katkera ja hapan on vanhuuden viini eikä hienoin hunajaleipä vastaa köyhyyteni karkeata leipäpalaa. Kääntykää vuodet, vierikää vastaani menneet vuodet, purjehdi Ammon taivasta lännestä itään, jotta vielä kerran saisin nuoruuteni takaisin. Sanaakaan en muuta, pienintä tekoa en vaihda toiseksi. Oi, solakka ruokokynä, oi, sileä kaislapaperi, antakaa minulle takaisin turhat tekoni, nuoruuteni ja hulluuteni.

="Clear was the water of my youth, sweet was my madness. Bitter and sour is the wine of my old age, nor is the fine honey cake responsible for my poverty's coarse piece of bread. (You) change years, (you) roll?? ??? went years, (you) sail from Ammon's heaven from west to east, so that still one more time I could return to my youth. A word I will not change, the smallest deed I will not change to another. Oi, slender reed pencil, oi, smooth rush paper, (you) give to me back my bad deeds, my youth and my madness."

Well...I had much more trouble with this paragraph...problems interpreting the imperative...

a. Kääntykää vuodet, vierikää vastaani menneet vuodet, purjehdi...
This seems to be in the present imperative...second person for the first two verbs, and first person for the third verb...but I can't quite understand what this means???
b. Sanaakaan en muuta, pienintä tekoa en vaihda toiseksi.... I think I have this right??

8. Tämän kirjoitti Sinuhe, maanpakolainen, köyhempänä Kemin maan kaikkia köyhiä.

="This wrote Sinuhe, exile, poorer than all the poor of the Land of Kem."
I think this is correct....

This section wasn't too difficult..again I'm trying to get the proper sense in Finnish...not come up with a smooth, "poetic" English translation...

[AldenG]

Here are my observations:

#1 is in the present tense. I would make a few adjustments to the wording though I would say you are not far off.

"Before I begin my book, I [will (optional, ambiguous)] allow my heart to make its complaint, for thus complains my sorrow-blackened exile heart." OK, he doesn't say "blackened" but my point is the sorrow caused the blackness. In other words, it is not valittaa murheesta but murheesta musta (and valittaa sydämeni). Toisin sanoen näin valittaa maanpakolaissydämeni, joka on murheesta musta.

#2. For kerran, I would go with "once." I make this not so much as an observation about the translation but to refine the Finnish meaning of kerran in this instance. Admittedly once and kerran both have some inherent ambiguity about exact intent, whether it is "one time" or "at one time." Then again, that similarity only improves "once" as the word to choose here.

#3. I read kuja as an ordinary city alley.

#4. The adjective tells us it's one goblet. Referring back to #2, one could say "once more." I think you're overdramatizing polkea jalallani and it is more like set foot upon (astua) or tread the soft black mud of Kem.

#5. Why am I not a crane, to fly on powerful wings past the guards...
Not very different from what you wrote, I guess.

#6. Pesäni rakentaisin savimajan katolle. (A mud hut). Savimaja olisi köyhien kujassa.
Isn't kaupaksi huutaminen what "hawking" ones wares means in English? Not to be confused with huutokauppa, or auction.
And of course let's remember that little dung beetle rolling its dung ball along the paved street.

#7. Finest honey cake. In this case, vastaa means to correspond to, be as good as.
The finest honey cake cannot equal a coarse hunk of bread from my youth.
Turhat here is more like vain or futile.
And finally,
Turn around, you years, roll toward me, you lost (gone) years, sail you (sun-god) Ammon from west to east across the sky, that once more I would get my youth back. So purjehdi taivasta is sail (on) the sky.

Overall I would say very good work as usual.

And from the very next sentence, Sinuhe comes back down to earth from these lofty but bitter philosophical heights and starts telling an actual story.

[Pursuivant]

b. huutavat kaupaksi tavaroitaan... and this ..."shout while selling their goods."...???

Helppoheikki is a bit of a dying profession

[AldenG]

Kääntykää vuodet, vierikää vastaani menneet vuodet, purjehdi Ammon taivasta lännestä itään, jotta vielä kerran saisin nuoruuteni takaisin.

To me as a fellow foreigner, this is one of the most non-intuitive sentences in probably the whole book.

You don't expect someone to speak directly to years, which are not just inanimate but also abstract. Also speaking directly to Ammon seems odd in the modern sensibility. With the nominative/accusative ambiguity in a word like vuodet, I had to think a bit to be sure I was interpreting all the pieces correctly.

In English we'd be much more likely to say "Turn back the years" (speaking to an impersonal god, though you don't have to be thinking of a god to say such a thing) and "Let Ammon sail backwards from west to east across the sky" or "Let Ammon drive his sun-chariot backwards across the sky."

Even in Finnish it is much more common (isn't it?) to see something like

Kääntykööt vuodet, vierikööt vastaani menneet vuodet. Purjehtikoon Ammon...

Let the years turn (themselves), let Ammon sail...

But there are other options as well, aren't there?

I can't quite see it clearly this morning, but I'm thinking at least one of:

Käännyttäköön (passive imperative of kääntyä) Let the years (accusative? this time) be turned (back) *
Käännettäköön (passive imperative of kääntää) Let the years be turned (back)
And then shouldn't there be a form from käännyttää (to cause to kääntyä) or käännättää (to cause to kääntää)


* I'm having trouble comprehending what passive imperative really means with a verb like kääntyä that has an inherently reflexive "do it yourself" meaning. I've no problem with käännytään (does not take an object, just means let's go left, right, or back) or käännetään (requires an object, let's turn this thing) or käännätetään ("let's have this thing translated," for instance) but beyond that the additional layers of meaning and indirection eventually get me confused. Today, at least.

[Rob A.]

Here are my observations:

#1 is in the present tense. I would make a few adjustments to the wording though I would say you are not far off.

"Before I begin my book, I [will (optional, ambiguous)] allow my heart to make its complaint, for thus complains my sorrow-blackened exile heart." OK, he doesn't say "blackened" but my point is the sorrow caused the blackness. In other words, it is not valittaa murheesta but murheesta musta (and valittaa sydämeni). Toisin sanoen näin valittaa maanpakolaissydämeni, joka on murheesta musta.

#2. For kerran, I would go with "once." I make this not so much as an observation about the translation but to refine the Finnish meaning of kerran in this instance. Admittedly once and kerran both have some inherent ambiguity about exact intent, whether it is "one time" or "at one time." Then again, that similarity only improves "once" as the word to choose here.

#3. I read kuja as an ordinary city alley.

#4. The adjective tells us it's one goblet. Referring back to #2, one could say "once more." I think you're overdramatizing polkea jalallani and it is more like set foot upon (astua) or tread the soft black mud of Kem.

#5. Why am I not a crane, to fly on powerful wings past the guards...
Not very different from what you wrote, I guess.

#6. Pesäni rakentaisin savimajan katolle. (A mud hut). Savimaja olisi köyhien kujassa.
Isn't kaupaksi huutaminen what "hawking" ones wares means in English? Not to be confused with huutokauppa, or auction.
And of course let's remember that little dung beetle rolling its dung ball along the paved street.

#7. Finest honey cake. In this case, vastaa means to correspond to, be as good as.
The finest honey cake cannot equal a coarse hunk of bread from my youth.
Turhat here is more like vain or futile.
And finally,
Turn around, you years, roll toward me, you lost (gone) years, sail you (sun-god) Ammon from west to east across the sky, that once more I would get my youth back. So purjehdi taivasta is sail (on) the sky.

Overall I would say very good work as usual.

And from the very next sentence, Sinuhe comes back down to earth from these lofty but bitter philosophical heights and starts telling an actual story.

Thanks Alden

As usual the more idiomatic expressions seem to cause problems...my brain wants to interprete them literally.... I totally missed the metaphor of Ammon sailing from west to east as meaning turning back the hands of time....

[Rob A.]

OK..it's been a while...a little more Sinuhe...and I'm not going to be too ambitious...just one paragraph...a bite-sized chunk...

Senmut, jota sanoin isäkseni, oli köyhien lääkäri Thebassa. Kipa, jota sanoin äidikseni, oil hänen vaimonsa. Eikä heillä ollut lasta. Vasta heidän vanhuutensa päivinä minä tulin heidän luokseen. Yksinkertaisuudessaan he sanoivat minua jumalien lahjaksi aavistamatta pahaa, minkä tämä lahja tuli tuottamaan heille. Äitini Kipa nimitti minut Sinuheksi sadun mukaan, sillä hän piti saduista ja myös minä olin hänen käsityksensä mukaan vaaroja paeten tullut hänen luokseen, niinkuin sadun Sinuhe saatuaan vahingossa faraon teltassa tietää peloittavan salaisuuden karkasi ja pakeni ja vietti lukuisia vuosia ja koki monenlaisia seikkailuja vieraissa maissa.

="Senmut, who I said was my father, was a doctor to the poor of Thebes. Kipa, who I said was my mother, was his wife. They did not have a child. During the days of their old age, I came to their home. In their simplicity they told me I was God's gift without expecting the evil, which this gift came to generate for them. My mother, Kipa, named me Sinuhe according to a fairy tale, for she liked fairy tales and also I had, in her opinion, come to their home in order to escape danger, as if (in) a fairy tale, Sinuhe was received from the danger of the pharoah's tent to know the fear of the secret he escaped and I fled and spend numerous years and experienced many adventures in foreign lands."

Not too difficult, but still a bit laborious for me to work through this. I think the only part that I haven't got quite right is this:

...niinkuin sadun Sinuhe saatuaan vahingossa faraon teltassa tietää peloittavan salaisuuden karkasi...
I've translated it as:

=-"as if (in) a fairy tale, Sinuhe was received from the danger of the pharoah's tent to know the fear of the secret he escaped ..."

I don't think this is quite right...???? And any other problems I may have missed???

[Valinnan vapaus]

Senmut, jota sanoin isäkseni, oli köyhien lääkäri Thebassa. Kipa, jota sanoin äidikseni, oil hänen vaimonsa. Eikä heillä ollut lasta. Vasta heidän vanhuutensa päivinä minä tulin heidän luokseen. Yksinkertaisuudessaan he sanoivat minua jumalien lahjaksi aavistamatta pahaa, minkä tämä lahja tuli tuottamaan heille. Äitini Kipa nimitti minut Sinuheksi sadun mukaan, sillä hän piti saduista ja myös minä olin hänen käsityksensä mukaan vaaroja paeten tullut hänen luokseen, niinkuin sadun Sinuhe saatuaan vahingossa faraon teltassa tietää peloittavan salaisuuden karkasi ja pakeni ja vietti lukuisia vuosia ja koki monenlaisia seikkailuja vieraissa maissa.

I redrafted your translation. It looks like I "corrected" almost everything, but some of it almost just for stylistic reasons as opposed to semantic.

="Senmut, who I called "father", was a doctor to the poor of Thebes. Kipa, who I called mother, was his wife. They did not have a child. Only during the days of their old age did I come to them. In their simplicity they would call me God's gift without anticipating the evil, which this gift came to generate for them. My mother, Kipa, named me Sinuhe according to a fairy tale, for she liked fairy tales and also I had, in her understanding/as she understood it, come to her escaping from dangers, as had the Sinuhe of a/the fairy tale, having by accident learned in the pharaoh's tent of a dreadful secret, fled and spent numerous years and experienced many adventures in foreign lands."

Here's your original translation if you want to compare them. And like I said I made some stylistic changes so feel free to disagree about something.

"Senmut, who I said was my father, was a doctor to the poor of Thebes. Kipa, who I said was my mother, was his wife. They did not have a child. During the days of their old age, I came to their home. In their simplicity they told me I was God's gift without expecting the evil, which this gift came to generate for them. My mother, Kipa, named me Sinuhe according to a fairy tale, for she liked fairy tales and also I had, in her opinion, come to their home in order to escape danger, as if (in) a fairy tale, Sinuhe was received from the danger of the pharoah's tent to know the fear of the secret he escaped and I fled and spend numerous years and experienced many adventures in foreign lands."

[Pursuivant]

Sinuhe is a bit like the EU directives, a lot of long sentences so you can get easily sidetracked. It isn't really easy to follow, even the dialogue is pretty straightforward.

The beginning phrase... I'd say that as Senmut who I called my father... Kipa who I called my mother...

[AldenG]

I'll comment a couple of words as well.

A good choice for paeten would be fleeing. It's the most literal general-purpose translation and in this specific case it also fits the intended meaning well. pakenen, paeta, pakeneminen=>pako-, pakolainen

Vasta is such a common word that it's worth spending a moment on, especially since it doesn't have a completely straightforward English equivalent. First it can be a noun meaning a sauna whisk. But it's the adverb that needs a little explanation.

It does indeed mean "only," but only in the temporal sense of "just now" or also "not before" or a comparative sense of "not less than."

Tulin vasta. I just got here.

Vastatulleiden matkustajien laukut ovat vielä [liuku]hihnalla. The bags of the just-arrived travelers are still on the [conveyor] belt.
(Literally, saavun/saapua is more exactly "arrive," as in saapuvat junat/lennot; but outside of terminals, tulen/tulla is more commonly used.)

Vasta heidän vanhuutensa päivinä... Only [Swedes would say "first"] in the days of their old age...

-- Anna sille rahat, Mick. Hänellä on veitsi. Give him the money, Mick. He's got a knife.
-- Ei tuo ole veitsi. Tämä vasta on veitsi. That's not a knife. THIS is a knife.

The last one is a good example of a usage that might possibly be explained by words ("nothing less than this is a knife") but is better absorbed from one or more examples. (NB: He's not saying that this sauna whisk is a knife...)

[jahasjahas]

Sinuhe 2013/2014?

I miss this thread.

[Rob A.]

Sinuhe 2013/2014?

I miss this thread.

Heh, heh...nice of you to remember this thread...I quite enjoyed it at the time. I still occasionally look at the material I have on Sinuhe....and it's still a tough slog, but the repetition of words, ideas and the general literary style does help a lot. The historical context in which it was written is also quite interesting....during the Nazi era....

I'll see what I can do to bring this thread back to life....but don't hold your breath for too long it might take a few weeks or so....

[AldenG]

Will look forward to participating in your journey.

[Rob A.]

Will look forward to participating in your journey.

Yes...and just to show I'm serious...here again are those immortal opening lines from the book:

Minä, Sinuhe; Senmutin ja hänen vaimonsa Kipan poika, kirjoitan tämän. En ylistääkseni Kemin maan jumalia, sillä jumaliin olen kyllästynyt. En ylistääkseni faraoita, sillä heidän tekoinhinsa olen kyllästynyt......... Hmmmm.... taas toinen arkipäivä Sinuhen elämässä...

Anyway...it says..."I, Sinuhe, son of Senmut and his wife, Kipa....[Aside: I'm not going to bother too much to get the Egyptian names correct in English...this is about learning Finnish].....am writing this. Not in order to praise the gods of the land of Kem, for I am tired of ...bored with...the gods. Not in order to praise the pharaohs, for I am tired of... bored with... their deeds."

Now...maybe it was covered in an earlier thread on Sinuhe, but I couldn't find anything...???... Anyway, ylistääkseni is a long form of the first infinitive of the verb, ylistää and carries the meaning of, " in order to.." So it seems there is already a stylistic element here.... the author is saying, " in order to praise the gods.."

The word, jumaliin is in the illative case ..it is the indirect object of this clause....in English you would more often find this at the end, but Finnish is freer with word order....

OK... just a start....