Citizenship Application 2023

[fiksumuksu69]

This is such a lovely feature Click on the username --> "Add foe" --> filter out the garbage from your feed

[merryberry]

This is such a lovely feature Click on the username --> "Add foe" --> filter out the garbage from your feed

Couldn’t agree more

[Auringon_kukka]

It would be great if this forum could get back to its roots: citizenship applications. There's been a lot of back-and-forth sniping lately among certain members on certain topics. Yes, people are worried about the PROPOSED changes to immigration and citizenship legislation, and there is going to be a lot of heated discussion in the months ahead, both inside and outside Parliament.

However, it behooves everyone here to be civil and to remember the guiding principle your parents must have taught you: treat others as you would like to be treated.

/end of rant

[Mamu]

Everyone has foreign friends to worry for them.
Vote this : https://chng.it/r27ZQp5Qq7

[Auringon_kukka]

Migri has issued a press release on the new government's "program." You can read it in English here: https://migri.fi/en/-/the-government-pr ... -available

or in Finnish here: https://migri.fi/-/hallitusohjelman-muu ... ivuiltamme

One paragraph caught my eye: "So far, no changes have been made. We do not yet know how the planned changes would affect new applications or applications that already have been submitted. If changes are made and your application is affected, we will contact you."

I can see the proposed changes (if they become law) affecting new applications as of a certain date going forward, but applications already in the system? Imagine the chaos and the damaging international exposure such a measure would attract.

The fall Parliamentary session will be worth watching, that's for sure!

[FinlandGirl]

One paragraph caught my eye: "So far, no changes have been made. We do not yet know how the planned changes would affect new applications or applications that already have been submitted. If changes are made and your application is affected, we will contact you."

Migri is just saying that they don't know since no legal text exists.

I can see the proposed changes (if they become law) affecting new applications as of a certain date going forward, but applications already in the system? Imagine the chaos and the damaging international exposure such a measure would attract.

Internationally noone would care, who in Finland protested when the French circumvented the democratically elected French parliament for raising the pension age?

It is unlikely that the rules for pending applications will be changed, and if this would happen anyhow it would be unlikely that it would survive in court.

[hellofelicia]

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

“Pick a side” is the opposite of principle of reciprocity lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciproci ... relations)

In this case it means that dual citizenship is only allowed for people whose first citizenship also allows dual citizenship, which Russia does.

[FinlandGirl]

Wtf would be the point of this? And do they realize they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Lots of “native” Finns have dual citizenships.

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

“Pick a side” is the opposite of principle of reciprocity lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciproci ... relations)

In this case it means that dual citizenship is only allowed for people whose first citizenship also allows dual citizenship, which Russia does.

Reciprocity is automatic for dual citizenship, countries that don't allow dual citizenship (like Finland until 20 years ago) revoke your citizenship when you also have or get another one.

Ukrainian men age 18 to 60 are currently prisoners in their country, not allowed to leave and might at any time be forced to fight in the war.
All Finnish men age 18 to 60 are also part of the reserve for wartime.

"Pick a side" would mean picking a side already during peacetime, currently dual-citizen Finnish men visiting their relatives in Russia when the border closes at the start of the next war between Finland and Russia might end up with a legal obligation to fight against Finland.

[hellofelicia]

The point is probably to not have Russian citizens having dual-citizenship. Like "pick a side".
Nepal, Japan, Indonesia and a few other countries don't allow double-citizenship either, so their citizens either choose to lose their native citizenship or just live forever abroad on a permanent residence permit. It's all about choices.

“Pick a side” is the opposite of principle of reciprocity lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciproci ... relations)

In this case it means that dual citizenship is only allowed for people whose first citizenship also allows dual citizenship, which Russia does.

Reciprocity is automatic for dual citizenship, countries that don't allow dual citizenship (like Finland until 20 years ago) revoke your citizenship when you also have or get another one.

I suggest you read up on what reciprocity means in international relations, because this is, again, the opposite of what it means.

There is a legal difference between being a dual national and holding two citizenships. Most countries do not allow dual nationality (being recognized as a citizen of two countries), but will be willfully blind to someone holding two citizenships and only recognize their nationals as such.

currently dual-citizen Finnish men visiting their relatives in Russia when the border closes at the start of the next war between Finland and Russia might end up with a legal obligation to fight against Finland.

There is already a legal way to revoke your citizenship for treason, in this case taking up arms against your country.

[FinlandGirl]

currently dual-citizen Finnish men visiting their relatives in Russia when the border closes at the start of the next war between Finland and Russia might end up with a legal obligation to fight against Finland.

There is already a legal way to revoke your citizenship for treason, in this case taking up arms against your country.

What is "your country" when you are a citizen of both?
That's exactly the problem.

I was not even talking about the case where that was voluntary.

Finland has conscription, and young dual-citizen Finnish-Russian men living in Finland have to serve in the army.
When the next war breaks out between Finland and Russia, will the dual-citizen men at that time involuntarily serving in the Finnish army as conscripts have to fight against Russia?

If they become prisoners of war, do these dual-citizen Finnish-Russian citizens deserve the death penalty as traitors by Russia for taking up arms against their country?

[hellofelicia]

currently dual-citizen Finnish men visiting their relatives in Russia when the border closes at the start of the next war between Finland and Russia might end up with a legal obligation to fight against Finland.

There is already a legal way to revoke your citizenship for treason, in this case taking up arms against your country.

What is "your country" when you are a citizen of both?

Once again: for most countries, their nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only. In some cases, countries sign agreements that allow each of them to recognize a person's obligations to other countries, but that is relatively rare.
It is very surprising that people who are, judging by their presence in this forum, are going for multiple citizenships, do not understand what it legally entails.

Finland has conscription, and young dual-citizen Finnish-Russian men living in Finland have to serve in the army.
When the next war breaks out between Finland and Russia, will the dual-citizen men at that time involuntarily serving in the Finnish army as conscripts have to fight against Russia?

Yes, because from the point of view of Finland, they are considered Finnish citizens only.

If they become prisoners of war, do these dual-citizen Finnish-Russian citizens deserve the death penalty as traitors by Russia for taking up arms against their country?

There is no death penalty in Russia, but yes, if captured by Russia, they will be tried as Russian citizens committing treason, because from the point of view of Russia, they are considered Russian citizens only.

[fiksumuksu69]

I got some decision just now, but I can't see it due to the service breaks in Enter Finland https://migri.fi/en/service-breaks-in-enter-finland

[FinlandGirl]

There is no death penalty in Russia,

That's not true.

There is already a legal way to revoke your citizenship for treason, in this case taking up arms against your country.

What is "your country" when you are a citizen of both?

Once again: for most countries, their nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only. In some cases, countries sign agreements that allow each of them to recognize a person's obligations to other countries, but that is relatively rare.

That's fake news.

The Finnish Conscription Act says that every man who has already served at least 4 months as conscript in the military of another country whose citizenship he has is exempt from Finnish peacetime conscription.

[hellofelicia]

There is no death penalty in Russia,

That's not true.

In practice, it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... ormat=true
Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Russia, but is not used due to a moratorium and no death sentences or executions have occurred since 2 August 1996. Russia has a moratorium implicitly established by President Boris Yeltsin in 1996, and explicitly established by the Constitutional Court of Russia in 1999 and reaffirmed in 2009.

What is "your country" when you are a citizen of both?

Once again: for most countries, their nationals who have other citizenships are still considered their citizens only. In some cases, countries sign agreements that allow each of them to recognize a person's obligations to other countries, but that is relatively rare.

That's fake news.

The Finnish Conscription Act says that every man who has already served at least 4 months as conscript in the military of another country whose citizenship he has is exempt from Finnish peacetime conscription.

How is that relevant here? Finland is exempting someone from military service in Finland. It has nothing to do with someone's obligations to a different country.

[RandomDude]

I got some decision just now, but I can't see it due to the service breaks in Enter Finland https://migri.fi/en/service-breaks-in-enter-finland

According to Migri it is either positive citizenship decision or
expiry decision if you yourself have cancelled your application, i.e. you can start celebrating already