what is you biggest culture shock? positive and negative

[mCowboy]

Oh Cowboy, I understand why you're so bitter

Moi? Never... I'm more sweet and sour...

[debonaire]

Sure, but not nearly on the same level. There is a very clear and noticeable difference in these "manners" every time I travel to Japan, or go back home to the states on a visit or have a holiday in southern Europe, or even when I go right next door to Sweden for that matter! Enough people have seen it on this thread, so there must be something to it. Not only that, but nearly every expat I've met has made this complaint as well as my Finnish friends who've lived abroad for an extended period of time and then come back home to a nation of people with, "bad manners".

You cannot compare the culture that you witness newly to the one that you grew up and say that the one that you witness new is in a worse level!!
That is soo naturally biased!! a few rotten apples can easily be noticed when the total numer of apples are less!!

As I said before, over time I've come to realize that Finns in general are not rude. This is just how Finnish people were brought up. What may be considered rude to someone from country X is not considered rude behavior here. Those of us who were brought up with being taught, "good manners" can't help but notice this difference in their culture though.

hmm funny that you mention that "one thinks that Finns are not rude" and I wonder what a Finn thinks about a foreigner.."when one thinks that they are not rude".. This clearly shows the resistance to fit into a culture than to learn and adapt to it!! ( and I ve heard enough yada yada about preserving own's own cultural values etc so lets not go there)..but then this is Suomen maa...where Finns can act Finnish regardless of how rude foreigners perceiven them or their manners to be!!

Being arrogant is certainly not one...
-keeping the door open when someone is right behind you..
-greeting people, especially when the other person has greeted you and your unresponding behaviour would be pretty humiliating.
-saying "thanks" in return for help/favor.
-Avoiding to comment on personal apperances or clothes in a negative way..
-basic table manners....atleast refrain from burping on the table and certainly not when in the presence of women..
-being nice to ladies...thats my favorite..
These are the basic etiquettes and one is expected to follow them even when we take cutural differences into consideration,Finland being no exception...
Nobody is trying to compare different cultures but we are simply trying to point out the differences...

[otyikondo]

kukaan pakottanu tänne muuttamaan... tana...

...vie meidän työpaikat... ja naiset...

meidän pitää säätää uusi laki, joka määrää, että jokaisen ulkomaalaisen miehen, joka muuttaa Suomeen, on tuotava naimaton siskonsa mukanaan ja työllistettävä vähintään 2 suomalaista vuoden sisällä muutosta.

Great idea, but are we sure we NEED more pimps? Or was there no cause and effect between the import of the sister and the employment of the two Finns? Would it be shift-work or a threesome?

Small point (and here, all those who have lived in 84 different countries on umpteen different continents in their lives can refrain from telling us about it, as we already know) might be that a good many of those who carp at aspects of Finnish society are blind to the more ludicrous aspects of the society in which they grew up.

It is all too familiar to hear people complain about the treatment of foreigners when they have hitherto never been one themselves and have no understanding of what it means in their own country. Just as learning a third language is a whole lot simpler than a second, adapting to "yet another foreign place" gets progressively easier.

This naturally goes as well for dogmatic Finns as for whiny ex-pats living in Finland. Perspective is all.

[Jukka Aho]

BTW, what do the Finns have to say about all this? What's their point of view? Has anybody bothered to wonder about that? I do.

Hmm... and here I thought I was still being considered one!

I’m siding with Blaugrau on this. When “Finns” (or “Englishmen” or “Americans”, or whatever) are perceived as doing this or that in a certain weird way, in reality, it is nearly always some subcategory of them: certain people living in a certain locality, people with a certain social class or educational background, in certain situations (but not in others), etc.

It’s sometimes fairly amusing to read such generalizations if your own daily experience of your own behavior, and your experience of the behavior of your friends and family goes mostly (or even totally) against the touted stereotype... (and that is not to say the reported trait could not be true with some subset of Finns, or more common in Finland than in some other country, but how big a part of the entire population really is affected and how much of the perception is distorted by things such as a foreigner not necessarily having too big a network of local acquaintances, or belonging (by marriage) to a particularly weird and off-the-norm family, or by misinterpreting some special occasion as “the rule” or some individual’s personal habit as “the local way” – that’s the question.)

Often, when dealing with different cultures and wondering about their super weird and ridiculous customs, the actual problem is that one is missing the background story and the cultural context which would explain why things are the way they are. As I’ve found, upon hearing that story and getting a bit more familiar with the history of the culture and society in question, the weird custom might not appear all that weird any more... or at least it can begin to feel more understandable and palatable. But admittedly, while the locals sometimes can provide that background story, many other times they can’t, as it might be something that is “too obvious” for them to turn into a coherent explanation, or simply because ordinary people are not necessarily capable or knowledgeable enough of dissecting their own culture or history in the same analytical way as a historian or a cultural or social anthropologist would.

[mCowboy]

Great idea, but are we sure we NEED more pimps? Or was there no cause and effect between the import of the sister and the employment of the two Finns? Would it be shift-work or a threesome?

well, those two things were not related...

as a matter of fact, there's still more women in Finland than men, so it's not that bad, however... I think the number of immigrant men outnumbers immigrant women quite significantly (based on my empirical evidence), so it would be nice for us peräkammarin pojat to also have a shot at something else besides that bossy Finnish woman...

Why should Finnish women have all the fun?

[ScubaGirl]

might be that a good many of those who carp at aspects of Finnish society are blind to the more ludicrous aspects of the society in which they grew up.

I have stated in many threads all the things that I find wrong with the place I grew up. At the end of the day, THIS is why I'm STILL here and NOT there

[sammy]

BTW, what do the Finns have to say about all this? What's their point of view? Has anybody bothered to wonder about that? I do.

-Susan

I don't know, it doesn't bother me really - it's not actually news to me either that some of my fellow countrymen and women have rude manners - and I lose no sleep if some ignorant American thinks that Finns are uncivilised.

The kind of generalisations we're talking about are only worrying in the sense that it's very easy -and actually also very human- to start believing in them. And this works both ways, not only concerning the negative things. I would never ever say that "all Finns are honest". Of course they aren't. What sort of wonderland is this supposed to be?

On the other hand, if I took that sort of things personally, I might sort of find it sad to read opinions to the effect that "Finnish people have not been properly taught how to behave"... (oh really? Thanks a bundle, mum and dad. And thanks for educating me in this respect, ye decent, genuinely cultural people - ahem - please, kiitos, schönke dan )

Btw did my American comment raise any eyebrows? Gotcha - it does not at all reflect my true opinions, I merely wrote it to illustrate that most Americans here probably felt "Hey, what b*!"#¤% is this guy spewing out" on reading that sentence... it is strange how all other generalisations EXCEPT those that concern your own frame of reference are somehow 'more acceptable' and 'justified'. I'm no stranger to this either, I do admit that I have certain stereotypical 'ideas' - not necessarily bad or good ones, just stereotypical - about other nationalities/cultures, the trick is to recognise them as such and give them the value they deserve... and not overtly use them to make presuppositions about actual people you meet.

[Tiwaz]

And one should remember that finnish body language can be rather minimalistic.

Small nod tends to be surprisingly common way to thank. Easily missed if you do not pay attention.

[ScubaGirl]

Funny how all the positive things that we all wrote about Finland have been overlooked

Guess it's not as interesting to talk about those

[mCowboy]

Funny how all the positive things that we all wrote about Finland have been overlooked

Guess it's not as interesting to talk about those

there's positive things about Finland?

[aguinness]

I don´t really give a damn whether Finns are rude or not, or whether they know it or not, I have my own opinion on that, but my question is why do foreigners here so often get commented on having good manners and being polite by Finns? I think that says a lot.

[debonaire]

Funny how all the positive things that we all wrote about Finland have been overlooked

Guess it's not as interesting to talk about those

there's positive things about Finland?

lol...
Cowboy,I still have my rose tinted glasses....i can pitch in some positive things about finland

[mCowboy]

Funny how all the positive things that we all wrote about Finland have been overlooked

Guess it's not as interesting to talk about those

there's positive things about Finland?

lol...
Cowboy,I still have my rose tinted glasses....i can pitch in some positive things about finland

are you sure those are not blue and white tinted glasses... or even worse... blonde tinted glasses?

[ScubaGirl]

my question is why do foreigners here so often get commented on having good manners and being polite by Finns? I think that says a lot.

touché

[debonaire]

there's positive things about Finland?

lol...
Cowboy,I still have my rose tinted glasses....i can pitch in some positive things about finland

are you sure those are not blue and white tinted glasses... or even worse... blonde tinted glasses?

you have a nice sense of humor...actually i assumed it to be rose colored to respect the opinions of some of the memebers on this forum...
Certainly not blonde tinted as i have been with many of them and that syndrome has long been gone...