Citizenship Application 2021

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kmr
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:33 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by kmr » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:22 am

akuno_hime_1412 wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:25 pm
kmr wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pm
My timeline:

30.12.2020 Application submitted
04.01.2021 visited Migri
23.07.2021 Second Stage
09.08.2021 Supplemental request (means of livelihood- for the period that I was a student)
11.08.2021 replied to request for supplementary information
13.08.2021 Positive decision.

Queue number 2600-2700
Background: (Came to Finland in 2013 as a student; A permit from 2017; Temp work contract during the time of the decision; Country not in the list)
Overall, it took 7.5 months to get the decision.
Good luck to those who are waiting.

Cheers! :beer_yum:

Congrats!!
Could I ask if you were working at all during the period which you were a student? What was your main source of livelihood then?
And do you remember what was your queue number at the time you submitted your application/visited Migri?
Thanks buddy!
I did not worked for 9 months while I was studying. It was during the time when I already had my A permit and I was doing my masters.
But, I worked as a freelancer during those time and earned something aroud 2-3k euros during those 9 months. And, I had some savings around 2k euros. On top of that, I had been paid the general housing allowance from kela during those 9 months. I guess those were sufficient.

As far as i remember, my queue number at the beginning was 4387, which I checked the next day after I proved my identity.



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Absoft
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:19 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Absoft » Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:02 am

kmr wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:42 pm
Absoft wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:18 pm
kmr wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pm
My timeline:

30.12.2020 Application submitted
04.01.2021 visited Migri
23.07.2021 Second Stage
09.08.2021 Supplemental request (means of livelihood- for the period that I was a student)
11.08.2021 replied to request for supplementary information
13.08.2021 Positive decision.

Queue number 2600-2700
Background: (Came to Finland in 2013 as a student; A permit from 2017; Temp work contract during the time of the decision; Country not in the list)
Overall, it took 7.5 months to get the decision.
Good luck to those who are waiting.

Cheers! :beer_yum:
Congratulations!
I have a question though... Did you also get an automated email to update your travels and source of livelihood about 5 months or at any point in time after you proved your identity?
Thank you @Absoft!
Yes, I had received the automatic emails twice (in 3 month, and in 6 month) . It was exactly the same as others guys have got in this forum. I updated my information for the second one but did nothing for the first one.

In total i got 3 emails: two automatic and one supplemental request. Supplemental request was sent by the Ylitarkastaja and requested documents were supposed to be sent within two week of time.
Thank you for your response @kmr

AntonBy
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:11 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by AntonBy » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:54 am

Hey everyone!

I have a question about "Further statement on travel" on the citizenship application and what are the rules around it?
I've just heard a story from a person, that she was denied citizenship, because in the last two years before applying, she was travelling away from Finland for more than 2 months in a year. I have never seen such a rule anywhere. I am relying on the definition of the continuous period of residence from the Migri site, and 2 months absence in a year should not be a reason I believe.

Have you heard about such a rule? Did anyone had some bad experiences or negative decisions because of travelling a lot, but still less than described in Migri? I am relying on these descriptions:

The following periods of absence from Finland will not interrupt your continuous period of residence, and their time will be calculated as continuous residence time:
- absences of a maximum of one month
- a maximum of six periods of absence that last 1–2 months each
- a maximum of two periods of absence that last 2–6 months each


Thanks!

NaLeKoNa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:11 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by NaLeKoNa » Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:29 pm

AntonBy wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:54 am
Hey everyone!

I have a question about "Further statement on travel" on the citizenship application and what are the rules around it?
I've just heard a story from a person, that she was denied citizenship, because in the last two years before applying, she was travelling away from Finland for more than 2 months in a year. I have never seen such a rule anywhere. I am relying on the definition of the continuous period of residence from the Migri site, and 2 months absence in a year should not be a reason I believe.

Have you heard about such a rule? Did anyone had some bad experiences or negative decisions because of travelling a lot, but still less than described in Migri? I am relying on these descriptions:

The following periods of absence from Finland will not interrupt your continuous period of residence, and their time will be calculated as continuous residence time:
- absences of a maximum of one month
- a maximum of six periods of absence that last 1–2 months each
- a maximum of two periods of absence that last 2–6 months each


Thanks!
Accumulated period of residence
If your continuous residence time is interrupted, the periods you have lived in Finland will nonetheless be counted towards your accumulated period of residence.

Your accumulated period of residence may consist of several periods of residence in Finland. In this case, the total time you have lived in Finland must be at least seven years, with the last two years without interruption. Normal holiday trips are, however, allowed during the two years before your application is decided. In this case, normal holiday trips mean that you may travel for four months in total during the whole two-year period.

The time you have lived in Finland with a temporary residence permit (the B permit) cannot be included in your accumulated period of residence.



If you read the above👆 carefully, you will find out the reason she was denied, her frequent travelling has interrupted her stay thus if she had a B permit before it will not be included in her period of residence and she needs to have a total of (at least) 7yrs stay in Finland before the decision and also her last 2yrs before decision must not have interruption ( she may travel within the 2yrs for not more than 4 months in all)

NaLeKoNa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:11 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by NaLeKoNa » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:11 pm

enitan2002 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:46 pm
Permit B residence period is also taken into account of your accumulated time. It's calculated as half. If you're on B for 4 years before getting the A, it's calculated to be 2 years.
Yes I know that it is counted as half, if you read well, what I said is, due to the fact that her period of stay has been interrupted (if it is so), if she had B permit, then it has gone as a waste, they will start counting from the A permit when she returns back to Finland.

AntonBy
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:11 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by AntonBy » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:24 pm

enitan2002 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:55 pm
NaLeKoNa wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:11 pm
enitan2002 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:46 pm
Permit B residence period is also taken into account of your accumulated time. It's calculated as half. If you're on B for 4 years before getting the A, it's calculated to be 2 years.
Yes I know that it is counted as half, if you read well, what I said is, due to the fact that her period of stay has been interrupted (if it is so), if she had B permit, then it has gone as a waste, they will start counting from the A permit when she returns back to Finland.
My bad. Apologies for the misunderstanding

Ok got it. I am not aware if it was interrupted or not. But if not, nobody has heard before about such a rule about not being more than 2 months out of the country, in 2 years before applying to citizenship?

I am just worried because myself I am travelling quite a lot, but I have never been exceeding the limits described in Migri about continuous residenship. But been away more than for 2 months, in the last year.

User avatar
browndude
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by browndude » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:31 pm

AntonBy wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:24 pm
enitan2002 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:55 pm
NaLeKoNa wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:11 pm


Yes I know that it is counted as half, if you read well, what I said is, due to the fact that her period of stay has been interrupted (if it is so), if she had B permit, then it has gone as a waste, they will start counting from the A permit when she returns back to Finland.
My bad. Apologies for the misunderstanding

Ok got it. I am not aware if it was interrupted or not. But if not, nobody has heard before about such a rule about not being more than 2 months out of the country, in 2 years before applying to citizenship?

I am just worried because myself I am travelling quite a lot, but I have never been exceeding the limits described in Migri about continuous residenship. But been away more than for 2 months, in the last year.
It says here

The following periods of absence from Finland will not interrupt your continuous period of residence, and their time will be calculated as continuous residence time:
- absences of a maximum of one month
- a maximum of six periods of absence that last 1–2 months each
- a maximum of two periods of absence that last 2–6 months each

I don't see anything about being away for more the 2 month in the last year as such here.
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poromiess
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:07 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by poromiess » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:52 am

My wife’s application has been in processing stage for more than 5 months. No supplement requests or any contact at all. Is this something common and what could be the possible reason?

SCHOOLDROPOUT
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:37 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by SCHOOLDROPOUT » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:48 am

Congrats to everyone that has been approved!

SCHOOLDROPOUT
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:37 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by SCHOOLDROPOUT » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am

One interesting read, in case you're wondering how the queue number works. Decided to copy this as medium now has a paywall and the article could also be taken down at anytime.

Original link: https://medium.com/inland/what-is-my-ap ... 293d7a2917


What is my application situation today? — Introducing better answers to Migri’s most often asked question step-by-step
Name redacted: **** ******
Aug 19, 2019 · 7 min read


At Migri, there is one main question that we our customers care about “When is my decision ready?” Together with other colleagues at Migri, Inland has worked to solve this challenge for over a year: Customers would love to get an exact date, when they can expect their decision, but Migri cannot give such for many reasons. One of the most obvious reasons is that the processing time depends on the completeness of the documentation and we only find out what is missing when we start processing the case.

More than a year ago we have introduced a processing time estimate, based on historical statistical data from the cases of the last 3 months within the same processing ground and application channel (online, on paper). This gives a general estimate about how long it general takes for a case to be processed. However, it does not tell anything about a particular application.

So, we rephrased the main question into “What is my application situation today?”. This can give a better understanding of the process to our customers. Again, answering this question is rather complicated. Customers who apply online already get an indication of their situation in our online application portal EnterFinland:


We hear in user feedback and interviews that customers are not satisfied with this solution: Often applications stay very long in phases 1 and 2, and then move within a day through step 3 to end up in 4. Changing this logic is currently not possible for many different reasons, including organisational and financial ones. So, to take this challenge one step closer to being solved we needed a different approach:

The idea
We cannot trace where the idea came up first, but Migri’s chatbot team ended up asking for our help in exploring the following idea:

What if we give customers a status number for their application, which changes depending on how many cases of the same processing ground are waiting for decision longer than this customer?

This number would decrease over time, reflecting that the case in question, is closer to being processed and gives an idea how long it may take until processing is started.

The second part of the idea was to use Migri’s chatbot Kamu to access this information. Users would input their case number to Kamu, and as a reply receive a visualisation of their waiting number. This is then also the first use-case where Kamu reads information from our internal case handling system UMA. We see the waiting number as a use case with lots of business-value, which is why it is the first one to be implemented.

The process of developing the logics
From January 2019 onwards, we started to look into how the logics should work in order to give the customers a realistic estimate of how many cases will be processed before their own, without raising false hopes. For this purpose, we needed to understand the logics of our processing and take a look at the data available to make such calculations. We chose five processing grounds as examples to test our logic against. The processing grounds were chosen from different units within Migri, some with short processing time estimates (students’ residence permit), some with longer (citizenship application of a person without a national passport) and some that included another processing organisation than just Migri (employed persons’ residence permit).

Next, a data scientist randomly selected 5 cases from 2018 for each processing ground and mapped how the waiting number would have developed for this case. We took data every 10 days, assuming that most customers do not check their case process daily, but about ones a week. The outcome from the data scientist looked like this:


Figure a: We received one long excel table with all cases included. (CaseID’s and dates are masked for security reasons


The table goes on for all the 25 cases we had selected at this time. In order to compare more easily what is happening in each case, we started to make visualisations of the waiting number over time.

We now went through several rounds of refining the logics: The basic rule always stayed the same: compare the current case to all other cases that are waiting for a decision longer than this case and have the same processing ground. However, we adjusted which cases to include: First, all cases that are in UMA and don’t have a decision, then only all cases from 2017 and 2018 and ended up with a rolling end date of 18 or 24 months. This means that whenever the user is requesting the waiting number, only cases that are not older than 18 or 24 months (depending on processing ground) are included in the calculations. The exclusion of older cases helped to make the data cleaner. Cases, which are in the system for unknown reasons but on which no decision will be made in the future, are now excluded from the waiting number calculation since they are of no concern for our customers.

In the process of refining the logic we also consulted our substance units and asked for their input.


The visualisation
The second line of work was around how to visualise the waiting number for our customers. The visualisation had to be easy enough to be understood and accurate at the same time. From the beginning we assumed, that simply giving our customers a number as part of a text would not be a good solution, since it would be very confusing (example: your waiting number is 354).

We made at least four iterations (1 paper based, 3 digital) before we decided on the visualisation option we will go live with. All three digital iterations were tested with users, first internally later at Itis in Itäkeskus and International House Helsinki with our real clients.


Based on the feedback we came up with the following visualisation, which we will go forward with:


It shows a timeline spanning from left to right. The left end is the day the application has been submitted, and the right the day of the decision of this application. In blue we see a number (389) indicating that there are 389 applications waiting for a decision in the same processing ground longer than this application. In general, this means that most of the 389 applicants, who have decided before this one, will get processed earlier. There is still some time to wait for this applicant. However, indicated by the line, the applicant can also see that she has already made quite some progress along the way and is already about 70% through the waiting time. The position of the blue line moves towards the right, as the application proceeds in the waiting line.

The name
Another topic of discussion was how to name the new service. Initially we started with queue number, but when interviewing clients, we realised that the expectation of a queue number in Finland is different: Customers expect to get a queue number, when waiting for a service in some office location (e.g. at the service desk of an organisation). Then the number they ones received would stay the same but increasing numbers would be called until their own is reached. But our number is different: The number decreases over time and when it’s very low the decision will be made.

During a brainstorming session with the chatbot team we went through many different options of names for the number we were working on for a while already. And we concluded that the best service name (for now) is “Waiting number” and “Odotusnumero” in Finnish.

The current status
The logic for the waiting numbers has been approved by Migris substance units.

The technical implementation is currently work in progress, but still requires a number of permissions. If our technical architecture proposal is approved, then the visualisation will be shown upon request to Migri’s chatbot Kamu. Users will need their diary number when they request this data.

We hope to introduce the waiting number concept for most citizenship and residence permit cases at Migri in the near future. We wish with this solution we are one step further to meet the expectations of the immigrants while balancing those with the realities of a governmental organisation.

Mamu
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 2:57 pm

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Mamu » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:37 pm

Migri website is 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable it’s saying.?

Champs
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:16 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Champs » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:21 am

Hello do anyone have any idea when these automatic message come in your email which require you to fullfill your travel info, income info as well some other info, does that indicates application is near to processing? Or its just drama from migri to give us fake hopes? I got my first automatic message today after 5months and 3 weeks.

Any idea or experience?

Thanks
Last edited by Champs on Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

akuno_hime_1412
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:11 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by akuno_hime_1412 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:49 pm

Champs wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:21 am
Hello do anyone have any idea when these automatic message come in your email which require you to fullfill your travel info, income info as well some other info, does that indicates application is near to processing? Or its just drama from migri to give us fake hopes? I got my first automatic message today after 5months and 3 weeks.

Any idea or experience?

Thanks
Hello,
as far as I know, the automatic messages are sent at 3months and 6 months from the date that you've submitted your application. So if you apply through enterfinland then it will be exactly 6 months from the date that you sent and paid your application online, or the date that you submit your paper application at migri's service point.
The update is just to save time and facilitate the processing of your application when they finally touch your application, instead of sending another request for supplements then wait another 2 weeks for applicants to reply. I would suggest supply it nevertheless. Less time spent on one application would mean that the queue will move faster and it helps other applications as well.

Cheers and good luck!
( I too have been waiting for longer than expected)

(edit: it should be 3 and 6 months, not 5months, bad calculation from my part)
Last edited by akuno_hime_1412 on Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Esu
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:12 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Esu » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:02 pm

[/quote]
Cheers and good luck!
( I too have been waiting for longer than expected)
[/quote]

How long have you been waiting if I may ask? Is your country on the list? This is my 19th month of waiting and it’s still at the stage it was when I visited the service point.

Champs
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:16 am

Re: Citizenship Application 2021

Post by Champs » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:33 pm

Country list has been removed by migri due to involvement of Pakistan Embassy in Stokeholm in order to clarify migri concern. They have apologised about their publication. However they still are internally using those countries applicants in slow processing loop. This is weird by migri.


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