Housing Issue

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Flossy1978
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Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:18 pm

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Last edited by Flossy1978 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.



Housing Issue

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network_engineer
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by network_engineer » Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:52 pm

This will get messy. You should reach out to a lawyer.

Aren't there issues on this? As far as I know, and I could wrong on these:

You cannot remove your name from the mortgage, you can sell your share to him, and that will need to be registered. The other option is to sell the house, and close the loan, and you get your share.

And no, if the mortgage is paid off, he cannot "just" remove the name.

Flossy1978
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am

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Last edited by Flossy1978 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

koen520
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by koen520 » Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:00 pm

if I remember, you could get legal assistance from the government in Finland for personal issues, at least much cheaper than you found by yourself.

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rinso
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by rinso » Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:10 pm

Messy indeed. It all depends on the (official) agreement during the divorce.
I have the feeling that you still own part of the property or that your "arrangement" was never officially registered.
The least you could do is contact a Finnish lawyer and figure out what your real position is.
https://asianajajaliitto.fi/en/
A quick search in the Finnish administration doesn't need to cost much.

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network_engineer
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by network_engineer » Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:37 pm

Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
It will cost tens of thousands of euros to employ a lawyer.
I don't think so, but I am not sure. It may cost a few thousand, but may not be tens of thousands.

If your case is that simple, i.e. hearing one-side of the party, it seems quite straight forward. This can be complicated only if there are e.g. other aspects to the situation, e.g. the other spouse has paid significantly for an asset outside, or can produce receipts having paid substantially for your expenses, e.g. paid a 100.000e for your education etc. But from what you say, the crux of the issue is at the far-end of this post.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
I do not have that and if he abided by the letter we wrote about this,
That is evidence of an agreement, particularly if it is signed. But this cannot be done as far as I know that easily, see the point below at the end.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
I won't see a cent out of the property. He's the Finnish person, he'll make sure he gets what he wants. That's how it seems to be there when foreigners are involved.
Largely speaking that is not true, the Finnish legal system does not grant justice based on individual characteristics, but based on law.

So, as far as I know,
  • by law, marital assets are distributed 50/50 UNLESS there is a pre-nuptial that explicitly covers your assets and his assets before marriage
  • by law, jointly procured marital assets are distributed 50/50 UNLESS there is a pre-nuptial that explicitly specific assets (bought individually) (AFAIK)
  • by law, if your name is on the mortgage and the property papers, it is yours, it cannot be *just* removed, you need to sign for it
  • by law, you can sell it to him, and the buyer must pay the fair-price market share
Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
*I barely even lived in the home*. So have been financially substituting his life with his second family almost the entire time we have had the mortgage.
[Crux of the issue]

!!! I think the problem is here in this sentence, i.e. if he has to take your name off from the deed, then he is, in the legal sense, buying the property share off you. There are two aspects to this:

1. He has to pay you for the share
2. He has to register the share, which could be 2-4% depending on the price

So, e.g. on point 1 above, let's say, if the house was financed a 100% by a loan, then nobody paid directly for the house purchase. Only the repayment of the mortgage. In this case, the party repaying 100% mortgage incurs an additional cost to buy the other share from you. I wonder if this is so, and if there is a remedy to this.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:18 pm
But I am beyond worn out from the stress of *subsiding* a man and his second family to live the life of Reilly
If there is proof that you are financially subsidising their life, then that might have some weight as well.

This is quite complicated.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
I just wanted to know if there was a link to an organisation who can help or guide me in the right direction because this is not right.
At this stage I just want my name taken off so I can secure a better future instead of the poverty I am being pushed into helping this selfish man.
https://lexly.fi/elamantilanteesi/avioe ... -lakiasiat?

Click the words that state 'Siirry ilmaiseen avioeroaavusajaan'. Ask for somebody speaks English.

Or here: https://www.minilex.fi/a/ositus-ja-lakimies

You can ask for an offer and an estimate of the hours required.

betelgeuse
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:19 am

Flossy1978 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:48 am
It will cost tens of thousands of euros to employ a lawyer.
There are lawyers working on success fees. Initial consultation can be had for free.

Flossy1978
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am

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Last edited by Flossy1978 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

betelgeuse
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:54 am

Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
There is no documentation regarding our divorce, other than the basic paper "you are divorced". No official paperwork.
This would mean you are still married.

heretostay
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by heretostay » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:07 am

You have right to do the official division of property with your ex. There is no time limit and your right to this never expires. If he were to die you could get it from his estate for example. You are entitled to 50% of the marital assets and in this process he can be forced to remove your name from the house. Contact a lawyer bit just about the house but about “ositus” this is much less expensive typically. You can even get a public lawyer to charge you or your ex based on your salary.

My guess is that your ex knows very well Finnish law and has something to lose by going through ositus and is trying to avoid it.

Flossy1978
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:02 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:54 am
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
There is no documentation regarding our divorce, other than the basic paper "you are divorced". No official paperwork.
This would mean you are still married.
I mean we are divorced but no other documentation about the house or custody or anything officially.

Flossy1978
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:11 am

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Last edited by Flossy1978 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

betelgeuse
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:59 am

Flossy1978 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:11 am
I cannot get a public lawyer, I do not live in Finland.
Incorrect.

” Muulle henkilölle annetaan yleistä oikeusapua, jos hänen asiansa on käsiteltävä Suomen tuomioistuimessa.”

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/199 ... 9346093680

Flossy1978
Posts: 1395
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: Housing Issue

Post by Flossy1978 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:15 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:59 am
Flossy1978 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:11 am
I cannot get a public lawyer, I do not live in Finland.
Incorrect.

” Muulle henkilölle annetaan yleistä oikeusapua, jos hänen asiansa on käsiteltävä Suomen tuomioistuimessa.”

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/199 ... 9346093680
Thank you. I will need to look into this.

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network_engineer
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Re: Housing Issue

Post by network_engineer » Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:42 pm

Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
I do not live in Finland. I am about as far away from there as you could possibly get. So it will cost a fortune, likely a whole lot more than someone in the Country.
It may not be so. Lawyers don't charge AFAIK based on your residence. Emails work just fine.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
There is no documentation regarding our divorce, other than the basic paper "you are divorced". No official paperwork.
So, how is the divorce then final? There whole things sounds a bit off (opinion).
heretostay wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:07 am
You have right to do the official division of property with your ex. There is no time limit and your right to this never expires. If he were to die you could get it from his estate
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
If my Ex died whilst my name is still on the house, what would happen with my half of the house? Then his half? We have a child together. But he has a new family now.
Top
As far as I know, if the spouses are divorced, then no, there is no automatic right to the property. The children are natural heirs and will inherit his part of the share.
heretostay wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:07 am
You are entitled to 50% of the marital assets ... get a public lawyer to charge you or your ex based on your salary ... My guess is that your ex knows very well Finnish law and has something to lose by going through ositus and is trying to avoid it.
See this below:
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
I pay nothing towards the house and get no benefit from it. My name is solely on the deeds and mortgage.
This is a complicated case, see the post above (Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:37 pm)
  • OP has not paid their share of the mortgage repayment (=defaulting on loan, but covered (protected from loan default by the spouse), i.e. the other partner has paid the OP's mortgage share).
  • Likely, nor has the OP paid the property taxes on the share.
  • Likely, nor has the OP paid any maintenance, ´rahoitusvastike´ or ´yhtiövastike´ or similar.
To take the OP's name off from the deed, then he is, in the legal sense, buying the property share off. There are two aspects to this:

1. He has to pay for the share (he has already paid the OP's loan repayment, and then has to pay the OP again for the share)
2. He has to register the share, which could be 2-4% depending on the price

I.e. if the house was financed a 100% by a loan, then nobody paid directly for the house purchase. Only the repayment of the mortgage. In this case, the party repaying 100% mortgage incurs an additional cost to buy the other share from you. I wonder if this is so, and if there is a remedy to this.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
So I am subsidising them and have lost so much money.
Subsidising means you would be paying directly for the costs incurred by their living.
Flossy1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:42 am
I tried to hire a Lawyer from there years ago, whilst here in my own country. The Lawyer engaged with me up to the point of when he contacted my ex, then stopped. All I got was an angry email from my ex. I do not know what he told the Lawyer. So, yes, I think whatever Lawyer I try to engage with from there will decide to do whatever the Finnish person wants.
Confirming that you would file a case should help. But as it seems, there is no option that is easy for the other spouse as well. They have been paying off the OP's share of the mortgage. And then they need to buy you out.

I think one possibility is this, assuming no downpayment has been made, and you can use a lawyer for arbitration:

1– Calculate your share. I.e. the loan repayment, property tax, and fair-share maintenance. E.g. 600 per month, multiply by the number of years you have had the loan (mortgage) in your name. Example: if you've had the property and then divorced for five (5) years, then = 600e (per month) x 12 months x 10 years = 72.000e.

2- Sell your share of the property = 72.000e. Balance that against your outstanding dues, e.g. the non-loan repayment. Adjust to the value of the property. Which should ideally equal to no-profit, no-loss setup. Hopefully!

3- Of course, the other spouse still has to pay for registering the house, e.g. if it is an apartment, 2% = 1.440e

But make it official, else all back to square 1.
Last edited by network_engineer on Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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