Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

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esimerkki
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by esimerkki » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:25 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:56 am
esimerkki wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:46 pm
The proof is out there, the OP existence in the vehicle (tram).
I did visit and pass by the maternity ward at the hospitals. No, the existence of babies isn't proof they are mine! :twisted:
Sorry dude, but I don't see much similarity between using transportation and having babies.
Your analogy reminds me of The Maury Povich Show /You Are Not The Father.


The OP just had a tough lesson to buy a ticket before entering public transportation in Finland.
Not really much to add in this case.

There is plenty of unfairness in Finland that needs attention more than these ticket cases.



Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:23 pm

agroot wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:28 pm
Because there are people who abuse the trust based system.
The volume of newcomers who willingly try to dupe the system is minuscule compared to ... left unsaid.

agroot wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:28 pm
As a newcomer I'd do as much as I can to show them we're equally trustworthy.
So, immigrants are inherently untrustworthy by the definition of being an immigrant? Whatever happened to the presumption of "innocent until proven guilty"? Ah, not applicable to the immigrant!

agroot wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:28 pm
What they do to their own politicians is none of my business (yet).
Oh, it is mine, I pay taxes and lots of it and that's my money in there too!

One does not have to be a citizen to be concerned. If the politicians created a law that violated the very personhood of an immigrant non-citizen, would it be considered of interest?

Without referencing any specific nation or dictator from past or present, various atrocities or "unfairness" that have have happened or continue to happen have been very "legal" in their country at that point of time, and some under the guise of "being moral" too!

There is an objective principle of a law (and rules thereof) versus a the blind application of the law.
esimerkki wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:25 pm
Sorry dude, but I don't see much similarity between using transportation and having babies.
Sure. It was not about similarity, but the principle of presumption. As I said, newcomers and tourists are *far less likely* to abuse a system willingly.

The point being the merely being on the platform does not mean the OP was travelling... Merely having items in my pocket does not mean I have stolen ... Merely being in the maternity ward does not mean I am sick ... Being in the vicinity of a hospital does not mean I am sick... and so on.

At worst the assumptions go wild, instances best reflected currently.

E.g. in the US:
Black person + nice car? Must be stolen.
Hoodie + in store? Must be robbery!
Mexican + working = Must be an illegal immigrant

These changes in attitude don't happen overnight, they grow if unchecked.
esimerkki wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:25 pm
The OP just had a tough lesson to buy a ticket before entering public transportation in Finland.
Not really much to add in this case.
Hmmm!

Tough lesson? Yes.

Unfair? Yes.

Hypocritical? Especially as many locals cry foul when confronted on the same outside Finland.
esimerkki wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:25 pm
There is plenty of unfairness in Finland that needs attention more than these ticket cases.
And each one needs to be tackled, this is not a question of the fine, it is a question of presumption. And how little items grow worse over time. This is a classic example IF I compare with say 24 years ago.

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm

Never surprises me how people can make everything about race.

OP, you broke the rules. You pay the fine. Simple. No exceptions.
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:08 pm

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Never surprises me how people can make everything about race.

OP, you broke the rules. You pay the fine. Simple. No exceptions.
Strange that one had to create an account just today to call out this! Could have at least created a relevant handle!!! By the way, loyalties on a bulletin board don't help in acquiring favours with officials, just in case! :wink:
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Never surprises me how people can make everything about race.
EQUALLY confounding how one can deny the existence and the impacts of of bias and presumptions. I.e. If not race, then immigrants.
  • Economy poor? = Because the immigrants are looting "e.g. Kela".
  • High unemployment? = Immigrants taking jobs
  • High crime? = Must be the immigrants
So, NOT about the race. But about presumptions. The hoodie example above should have hinted that.

Code: Select all

noun
1.
a hooded sweatshirt, jacket, or other top.
"sporty track pants and lurex-striped hoodies"
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
OP, you broke the rules. You pay the fine.
I'll rephrase: The rules were broken. NOT deliberately (=requires evidence of intent)
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Simple. No exceptions.
Not simple. People make mistakes. Many, many children have forgotten their cards at home. They are kids. One father I know stated this clearly: "I pay taxes. Ergo: the services are mine. Kid forgot his pass. Loss to me as a taxpayer. I am fine incurring that loss."

Many elderly have also forgotten their cards, phones. I too am fine incurring that loss. Even if the whole youngsters population forgot to pay, it would be still minuscule against the 300 million paid to "renovate" a building!!!

As I said, there is the principle, objective, and intent of the law. Misappropriating the law while ignoring the objectives and basics is what this is about.
Last edited by network_engineer on Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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agroot
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by agroot » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:16 pm

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Never surprises me how people can make everything about race.
Sorry I just assume people could be discriminated against. As an engineer it's my job to always consider the worst, not to take any chances or hope for things that are not 200% guaranteed.

NukkuMatti
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by NukkuMatti » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:39 am

agroot wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:28 pm
network_engineer wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:56 am
Blind eyes until queried on breakfast costs, renting saunas as apartments, personal taxi trips etc. cause more fiscal and goodwill harm to public finances than a 2,80e ticket!!! Don't understand the grounds for defending this nonsense?
Because there are people who abuse the trust based system.

As a newcomer I'd do as much as I can to show them we're equally trustworthy. What they do to their own politicians is none of my business (yet).
And that is (sadly) where you are wrong:
First of all: there is no trust based system and has never been.... for foreigners surely not, but even not for Finns among each other.
Second: you will never be equally trustworthy to them, the truth is, they are the ones not being trustworthy at all, so factually you should be more trustworthy than them.

I have to side with OP here too.

[rant]
This is not a country to be best of the class, as being a foreigner. Better to be exploiting the system as much as you can because they will do the same with you!

In the news a few days ago:
Minister of Employment Tuula Haatainen : "In many ways, as a society, we need to change and correct attitudes. We must be able to see these people as coming here, not as people to be exploited, but as people who are part of society,"

So even the Finnish minister admits that foreigners are generally being exploited and that this is an attitude problem of Finns, that we are not seen as part of the society by Finns.

How is that trustworthy?
Just waiting for the time that their grandpa / grandma diapers need to be changed and there is no one else to do it but an African Asian trans non binary person charging 400€ per diaper speaking only English...(must be their nightmare) and believe me that time comes sooner than you think.
[/rant]

source: https://yle.fi/news/3-12646381

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm

I made an account to post in the citizenship thread any then I saw a bunch of children arguing about race.

network engineer, I didn't read a word of that bible-tier monologue you wrote.
agroot wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:16 pm
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Never surprises me how people can make everything about race.
Sorry I just assume people could be discriminated against. As an engineer it's my job to always consider the worst, not to take any chances or hope for things that are not 200% guaranteed.
I'm an engineer too. Your anology is still ridiculous.
Last edited by 37yqp8098y5 on Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:12 pm

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm
I made an account to post in the citizenship thread
Hmmm! Very convincing - not! :roll: The reply above was posted at Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:14 pm and the post in the citizenship thread later at at Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:19 pm. And no, nothing of what you posted was anything of contention, so hiding there seems very suspicious.

Yep, experiences in audit, forensic auditing, investigations. :twisted:
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm
saw a bunch of children arguing about race.
Would you like to look up the definitions of 'children', 'argue' (verb) vs. 'argument' (noun). Helpful links: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ and https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm
network engineer, I didn't read a word of that bible-tier monologue you wrote.
Perhaps you should have. Wisdom seems to be chasing you, you certainly seem to outrun it [and get away] ...
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
I'm an engineer too.
Sorry to hear that ... terrible things like this do happen. Please do list the activities you are involved in - help people stay away from those designs of thinking!
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:14 pm
Your anology is still ridiculous.
Link to the dictionary above.

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agroot
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by agroot » Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:51 pm

-- deleted, no point continuing this --

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:29 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:12 pm
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:18 pm
I made an account to post in the citizenship thread
Hmmm! Very convincing - not! :roll: The reply above was posted at Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:14 pm and the post in the citizenship thread later at at Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:19 pm. And no, nothing of what you posted was anything of contention, so hiding there seems very suspicious.

blah blah blah
Dude you have way too much time on your hands. I made my account to post in the citizenship thread and in the meantime whilst the mod was approving my first post, I made this one. Mod approved them in what-ever order they wanted.

Also I think your profile picture is pretty racist. So I have nothing else to say to you except I suggest you find something better to do with your time than arguing with others if you want to be taken seriously by people like me.
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:36 am

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:29 pm
I made my account to post in the citizenship thread and in the meantime whilst the mod was approving my first post, I made this one. Mod approved them in what-ever order they wanted.
I am not the one that is hiding. Enough people know me on the board in person!

Here's what happened:
  • you created an account to avoid people linking to you, fearing whatever ... as if anybody really cares... but for whatever reason
  • It is simply bad behaviour to troll a poster (the OP), and their difficult experiences *pretending a higher moral ground*. That too using a new account. You got called out!
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:29 pm
Dude you have way too much time on your hands.
  • Yep, catching trolls is fun!
  • Particularly when you seem to ignore experiences of others in their own lives.
  • Not to mention being judgemental of a person, in this case the OP that felt violated.
  • Defending the wrongs of society ain't going to get you extra points for citizenship...
  • It's called pseudo nationalism.
And, here's the catch: You don't read well either. You missed all the points. An engineer, I seriously doubt it!
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:29 pm
Also I think your profile picture is pretty racist.
Huh? I have had that profile picture - of my handle - since 2003. IIRC, the Bronx Zoo. So, how exactly?

And now, *YOU'RE* trying to bring it down to race?

I.e. you are telling me that *my own profile picture of my handle that I have had since 2003 is racist*? How exactly? What sensible point that I am missing?

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:29 pm
if you want to be taken seriously by people like me.
I doubt the value of being taken seriously by 'people like you'. Or if I want to be taken seriously by trolls on the Internet at all. Happy to retort - NOT!

And the reason I put text in colour? Perhaps, with the attention span that you have, it helps you read! Will it work? Fortune telling: Nope, it won't! :twisted:

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:20 am

take your meds :lol:

you're literally far too unimportant for anyone to justify reading that monologue of yours :roll:
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396

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network_engineer
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by network_engineer » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:42 am

37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:20 am
take your meds :lol:
I asked the doctor, there ain't no pills for the desire to quash trolls. In fact, he prescribed some tonics to keep me going against Internet trolls. :twisted:
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:20 am
you're literally far too unimportant for anyone to justify reading that monologue of yours :roll:
I never said I was important.

And yet you bothered to reply? :twisted:
37yqp8098y5 wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:20 am
you're literally far too unimportant for anyone to justify reading that monologue of yours :roll:
A monologue vs. a retort, learn the difference, somewhere up was the link to the dictionary. Now that your anonymous view in the citizenship thread is over, how about you come to reality?

Somebody should hand over your posts to the citizenship office. :twisted: If your moral pretence pulls people down when you are NOT yet a citizen, you are likely to be a hazard when you are one?

Here's the thing: I called your pretence to moral high ground. I called out your imagination that some immigration official is going to award you points. I called out your fake ID.

And you? At best you've sinned against all 10 Commandments of Logic. Don't know what it is? Try being friends with Google.

Time to reply: 1 min. 07 secs.

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:51 am

don't care. still didn't read.

now I am turning off notifications and blocking you because you're going to get yourself banned at this rate for consistently sperging out
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396

37yqp8098y5
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Re: Unfair HSL penalty fare for 10 secs

Post by 37yqp8098y5 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:54 am

bye felicia

Image

Image
The average Somali and Iraqi costs Finland €12,000 per person, per year.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/160396


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