Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

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NansDrivel
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Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by NansDrivel » Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:30 pm

We are moving to Turku on Wednesday 2 November. We’ve stayed there for 7 weeks at a time and have traveled in Finland, but that’s different from truly building a life there.

What were your biggest surprises about Finland? Kiitos!



Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

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riku2
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by riku2 » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:52 pm

the biggest surprise was the holiday culture. most people take their holiday at the same time. The school half term in the spring is just called "ski holiday" - as if everyone has school age children. About 50% of employees take that week off. In July about 70-80% of the staff are on holiday in any one week. This kind of concentrated holiday making is unheard of in English speaking countries.
Then the shock that bank holidays that fall on a weekend are lost. New year's day on a Sunday? No day off work. Again this is different in English speaking countries.

On the other hand this mono culture is great when you are not following the crowd. Supermarkets (even lidl) are really quiet during mon-fri working hours. Sometimes you don't even have to queue to pay at Lidl if you go there are 10am during the week

NansDrivel
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by NansDrivel » Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:36 am

Kiitos!

FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:03 am

riku2 wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:52 pm
the biggest surprise was the holiday culture. most people take their holiday at the same time. The school half term in the spring is just called "ski holiday" - as if everyone has school age children. About 50% of employees take that week off. In July about 70-80% of the staff are on holiday in any one week. This kind of concentrated holiday making is unheard of in English speaking countries.
Then the shock that bank holidays that fall on a weekend are lost. New year's day on a Sunday? No day off work. Again this is different in English speaking countries.

On the other hand this mono culture is great when you are not following the crowd. Supermarkets (even lidl) are really quiet during mon-fri working hours. Sometimes you don't even have to queue to pay at Lidl if you go there are 10am during the week
Similar "summer holiday season" exist in other countries in Europe as well, August often being the month when many businesses, offices,.. etc. are closed or at least significantly short-staffed.

esimerkki
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by esimerkki » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:36 am

That nepotism is "okay".

don't get me wrong, Finland is one of the least corrupt countries in the world, and certainly less nepotism than my own country.

But nepotism here in Finland is sometimes considered a good option because "someone we know is less risky than someone we don't".
In my country, we think nepotism is pure corruption, but still we do it, lol

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network_engineer
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by network_engineer » Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:53 pm

The ability for all to relax and take time off is one of the strongest factors about Finland! It can be better organised though. As I see it, short-staffing critical OR essential services is a rather weak way to do it.

riku2
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by riku2 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:03 am
Similar "summer holiday season" exist in other countries in Europe as well, August often being the month when many businesses, offices,.. etc. are closed or at least significantly short-staffed.
Finns always use that excuse if the topic of everyone taking July as holiday in Finland is mentioned. But my original post specifically said it was unknown in "English speaking countries". For sure in the two English speaking countries in Europe there is no month long holiday culture.

I complained to the road traffic authority that the road signs in Finland are all in upper case and people can read things quicker if the names are in mixed upper/lower case. They said that other countries in Europe use all upper case for road signs so it was ok to do the same thing in Finland!

FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:53 am

riku2 wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:03 am
Similar "summer holiday season" exist in other countries in Europe as well, August often being the month when many businesses, offices,.. etc. are closed or at least significantly short-staffed.
Finns always use that excuse if the topic of everyone taking July as holiday in Finland is mentioned. But my original post specifically said it was unknown in "English speaking countries". For sure in the two English speaking countries in Europe there is no month long holiday culture.
Ahem... I was stating mere facts. E.g. in central Europe, Germany etc., there really is a period when people are having their holidays. That's all. I made no reference to <whatever else you might be thinking of>. Think of whatever excuse as you want.

NukkuMatti
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by NukkuMatti » Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:05 pm

NansDrivel wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:30 pm
We are moving to Turku on Wednesday 2 November. We’ve stayed there for 7 weeks at a time and have traveled in Finland, but that’s different from truly building a life there.

What were your biggest surprises about Finland? Kiitos!
Well that is easy, the biggest surprise was the "hidden" discrimination of foreigners / foreigner hate, even for a Caucasian immigrant.
It was such a surprise because it is mostly hidden.

You will see it everywhere, from dealing with authorities to getting a job or even on the job, from getting a good price offer for your car to a good price offered on a renovation you(r house) need(s).
From your salary to your neighbors behavior.

The worst thing is that Finns have the tendency to deny it exists and when confronted with it, switch to outright denial of the facts.
The earlier mentioned nepotism as well, in general this is also denied by all job coaches, but when I was on a job training course from TE office, it was mentioned that 80% of the jobs never reach the stage of advertising at the TE office (due to nepotism), that leaves 20% open for a chance for any foreigners to apply and from which by the local news agency Yle researched, only 6% of this 20% will be considered as an applicant at all, the rest will be discarded at reception of the application letter (to the garbage bin directly due to the last name not being Finnish).

It is the general practice in Finland to see foreigners as persons to be exploited, even the current Minister said so: https://yle.fi/news/3-12646381
"In many ways, as a society, we need to change and correct attitudes. We must be able to see these people as coming here, not as people to be exploited, but as people who are part of society,"
Last report in the news was that (https://yle.fi/news/3-12666816) even 40% of the specialists are discriminated at work. So even when you get a specialized job you were specifically hired for because no Finnish natives were available for the job, you will get 40% chance of facing discrimination at work.

There is another post here on the forum about buying a house. Same discrimination applies here, you will pay more... or when you rent... big chance if it is in a big housing company complex, several apartment's tenants are working to get rid of you from the moment you arrive.

So beware...and you will be aware. Once you have seen / experienced it, you cannot un-see it anymore, it is everywhere....

There is a reason the "true Finns" party (perussuomalaiset) has been doing so well in the past decade.

That is what surprised me and made (makes) me feel very unwelcome.

(Of course you can be lucky and not experience any of this, that does not mean it is not there....)

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network_engineer
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by network_engineer » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:13 pm

NukkuMatti wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:05 pm
... It was such a surprise because it is mostly hidden.
... You will see it everywhere.
... tendency to deny it exists and when confronted with it, switch to outright denial of the facts.
... 80% of the jobs never reach the stage of advertising at the TE office (due to nepotism),
... last name not being Finnish).
... buying a house
You've summarised the whole thing. Leave some for the others too, no? :D But yes, agree!
"In many ways, as a society, we need to change and correct attitudes. We must be able to see these people as coming here, not as people to be exploited, but as people who are part of society,"
This is key. They themselves are creating tiers in society and then get all alligator-teary-eyed when things don't work out long-term, as we have seen in neighouring and some other European countries.

In fact, I have been rather blunt about it, e.g. *one of the core topics*, spoken outright (to great discomfort of natives) on immigrant family reunification.

Compared to e.g. Finland, where children are brought up on government's dimes :? ... some, not all, but few of the immigrants have dependent parents without other siblings that can care for the parents. However, this society does not consider antecedents as family, so they cannot sponsor aging parents!!!

And it is not like each immigrant would be bringing with them their parents. Few might, and from what I've discussed, it is like 3-5% of immigrants that have parents dependent on them.

The immigrant's parents go through thick and thin to pay for their children from birth until they get a job. I.e. if comparing societal values, most immigrants "owe", and *willingly owe* gratitude and care to their parents.

But at the moment, it is like "We need immigrants to come and work and pay taxes ... so our society can still have welfare!"

However, with the amount of taxes to fund their society, most immigrants are left with hardly anything to support their parents, and with heavy burdens of heart.

Here's the thing: Immigrants have a skill. You need skilled labour. I.e. it is an exchange of skills for money.

It is NOT the immigrants job to pay for your society's welfare, especially, work-based-immigrants. Not the worker's job to care for your pensioners (over the immigrant's own responsibilities), nor for your other dependents (subtly said) (over the immigrant's own responsibilities).

I often say this: NOT a single work-based-immigrant is coming here, with just the intent of becoming a native (as if being reborn into heaven)! With skills they look for reasonable alternatives, most western countries have work-based immigration. Gaps in Industry-sector, salaries, job offers etc. are all that matters. This is one of the greatest discomforts that natives don't like. Their imagination is that the whole world is running to come here! :lol:

PS. Fair enough, your country and you do not want to allow for family-based-chain-immigration, Stupidest argument I have ever heard, but I don't expect anything wiser either from these dimwits. Simple answer: Persons issued with a dependent visa CANNOT further sponsor anybody! E.g. if an immigrant brings their parents as dependents, they simply cannot sponsor their other children etc. Problem solved.

To answer the OP's question after that :twisted:
  • You are coming here to pay taxes.
  • Your job is to support the welfare system
  • You are coming here and show pseudo loyalty, best c.u.n.t.r.y.
  • You will be expected to eternally praise the system, including to the garbage collector since you are living in his precious land
  • Irrespective of your financial and tax payer status, you will be looked as a leach of the system
  • You must accept discrimination (it is just not called that way)
NukkuMatti wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:05 pm
...
You forgot one thing, guess what?

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agroot
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by agroot » Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:23 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:13 pm
Compared to e.g. Finland, where children are brought up on government's dimes :? ... some, not all, but few of the immigrants have dependent parents without other siblings that can care for the parents. However, this society does not consider antecedents as family, so they cannot sponsor aging parents!!!
It's the job of eldercare not the children. Not allowing antecedents means we cannot be pressured into continuing this inhuman practice.

However, tax deduction on remittance like in Germany would be very nice.

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network_engineer
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:17 pm

agroot wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:23 pm
It's the job of eldercare not the children.
To each his own. This seems to be a cultural view, i.e. the concept of an 'outsourced eldercare' as such seems is a western notion, i.e. let somebody else care for my aging parents.

*Most people* from the Eastern part of the world, southern Europe, south of the Equator, and the southern part of the Americas would prefer and do care for their parents in-house.
agroot wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:23 pm
Not allowing antecedents means we cannot be pressured into continuing this inhuman practice.
In my culture, and *admittedly my own personal view* dumping my own parents into a solitary living away from their loved ones would be cruel and inhumane.

That being said, to each his own. Personally, I would rather have them living with me than elsewhere.
agroot wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:23 pm
However, tax deduction on remittance like in Germany would be very nice.
This is another thing.

The burden on finances is high and places most immigrants for the next 1-2 generations as second-class citizens. Although most people with aging parents gladly pay for their upkeep, and also pay heavily to travel and visit them.

This means that the immigrant struggles with both resources and the heartache of separation – while the locals feed on the tax monies payed by the immigrant, and yet receive racist treatments. That's shameless! I sometimes wonder what modern day slavery could be defined as... ?

I.e. yes. A tax break on this is needed.

But then again, what can be said ... it was deemed that even an *underage* *biological* daughter's case is not considered family, as the child was living in Thailand. A better title for the news could have been: Your mother no longer.

glad.fi
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by glad.fi » Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:18 pm

NansDrivel wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:30 pm
We are moving to Turku on Wednesday 2 November. We’ve stayed there for 7 weeks at a time and have traveled in Finland, but that’s different from truly building a life there.

What were your biggest surprises about Finland? Kiitos!
1) Finland has a lot of poverty!! Notice the beer can collectors on the street who pick up this aluminum cans and sell for cents. Some people do it as full time job because they can't find any other work!

2) Finnish Nationalism - one time I was passing by a fruit stall where a girl was selling strawberries, two different kinds, one from Spain and other from Finland, I asked her which ones are better, and she said obviously the Finnish ones are sooooooooooooooooo much better because they are Finnish!!. Obviously.

3) They do not want to give you a job if you are a foreigner. Period.

4) Do you want a bank account? Well guess what you can't get one unless you have a job!

5) Speed limits are ridiculously low, like super low. You feel like a grandma driving on these roads.

6) Police presence is everywhere, you really notice this coming from other Europeans countries in the west.

7) You credit history is affected by "Parking tickets" and other small fines. Missed a monthly gym payment or forgot to cancel your gym membership? These things get recorded on your credit file. Later you will have trouble renting an apartment.

8.) Everything is super expensive for no good reason. You can easily pay 70 euroes for a haircut. In other EU countries it is more like 12 Euros.

9) Can't buy normal over the counter medication - try buying potassium in a pill (bananas have potassium) - and you will be asked to get a prescription!

10) Can't buy alcohol after 9.00 pm.

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agroot
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by agroot » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:16 pm

glad.fi wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:18 pm
1) Finland has a lot of poverty!! Notice the beer can collectors on the street who pick up this aluminum cans and sell for cents. Some people do it as full time job because they can't find any other work!
They're not legal residents and not eligible to Kela I guess?
glad.fi wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:18 pm
6) Police presence is everywhere, you really notice this coming from other Europeans countries in the west.
Why do Europeans hold grudges against their own policemen and policewomen? They're like bodyguards, except it's free.

FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:03 pm

Lots of moaning and sense of entitlement in this thread.

The purpose of a country, any country, is to first and foremost act for the benefit of its own citizens. If you think otherwise, please explain why?

If yes, it is prudent of the country to set preferred standards for the people immigrating on a permanent basis. If you think otherwise, please explain why?


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