Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

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network_engineer
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm

agroot wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:35 pm
I'm not voting anything since the current immigration policies are fine as they are.
I suppose you mean for yourself? What about the others that are having a hard time because of this? Who cares, eh? :wink:
agroot wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:35 pm
Why would people move across countries only to complain about being mistreated but insist on staying? I can't understand this attitude.
The first question: Are you thinking? Have you tried to put yourself in the other's shoes?

If not, here's the answer: Because some people cannot just leave, *there are factors that tie them here*. Why is this so hard to understand?

You want a example? Friend of mine. Graduated from the Finnish education system as a registered medical nurse (sairaanhoitaja). Cannot find a decent job that pays at par with the locals, so well! He does have the possibility and the opportunity to move to Canada. BUT Cannot. Because his spouse won't move. So, the options are: Ditch the family and kids. Or stay.

There's a Turkish acquaintance who did move. At the cost of his child. And then was forced to return because he's a father.

It is very easy to be judgemental.
NukkuMatti wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:47 pm
You make yourself sound like a Mexican voting for Trump because too much of your fellow Mexicans are crossing the border.. and you do not like it....
From where I come there is a word for such a person.... I will not post it here... that would be impolite.
:thumbsup: There's a clear certainty of truth in there. Sadly! :roll:



Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

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agroot
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by agroot » Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:57 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm
You want a example? Friend of mine. Graduated from the Finnish education system as a registered medical nurse (sairaanhoitaja). Cannot find a decent job that pays at par with the locals, so well! He does have the possibility and the opportunity to move to Canada. BUT Cannot. Because his spouse won't move. So, the options are: Ditch the family and kids. Or stay.

There's a Turkish acquaintance who did move. At the cost of his child. And then was forced to return because he's a father.
Okay I see your point. Fair enough.
network_engineer wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm
NukkuMatti wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:47 pm
You make yourself sound like a Mexican voting for Trump because too much of your fellow Mexicans are crossing the border.. and you do not like it....
From where I come there is a word for such a person.... I will not post it here... that would be impolite.
:thumbsup: There's a clear certainty of truth in there. Sadly! :roll:
It is true. Let's not fool ourselves - I came here to escape the society built by my people. It's exactly those people, or at least the majority of them I'm escaping from, and you want me to make the rules easier for them...? :lol:

However, I'm also very glad people here do care about outsiders. That's not something one would expect in my native country. So I'll just stay neutral.

Samael
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by Samael » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:25 pm

A word in defense of the Finns. Just in case, I’m not a Finn, I’m Russian living in Germany for six years.

Finns are not some special people who hate foreigners. To understand a Finn, you need to get into his shoes. Imagine that you live for some long time among your people. You share the language, you have common past, culture, you behave predictably in different situations, you are much more comfortable with them than with foreigners.

And then not you, but the government, and often not necessarily the government, but EU issues a directive that all participating countries must accept refugees according to quotas (let's not talk about who is causing this). In addition, the state (I emphasize, the state, not the people) realizes that the society needs new workers, otherwise there will be big problems with salaries, pensions, social benefits etc. And then the labor immigration program is initiated. This happens sooner or later to any developed country.

But people in the country may not really want it. They've been ok all that time.

In every country there is hidden discrimination, this is a natural process, society needs time to understand and accept the new order of the world. I wish you patience and please show respect for the host country, try to understand them. Understand not the government, but firstly people themselves. Even in democratic countries, the opinion of the state does not always in sync with the opinion of the inhabitants.

Have a good one.

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network_engineer
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by network_engineer » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:52 pm

Samael wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:25 pm
Finns are not some special people who hate foreigners. To understand a Finn, you need to get into his shoes. Imagine that you live for some long time among your people. You share the language, you have common past, culture, you behave predictably in different situations, you are much more comfortable with them than with foreigners.
I would have bought that argument a few centuries ago. I am reminded of an anecdote: A Finn and a foreigner carrying some bananas get into a train. The Finn had neither seen a foreigner nor a banana ever in his life below. The foreigner offered the Finn a banana explaining it is a fruit. Just as the Finn tasted a large bit off the banana, the train went into the tunnel. Scared the Finn shouted out: Don't eat the banana, it makes you go blind.

2023: I am not sure I buy the argument that the foreigner or the banana is unfamiliar. :)
Samael wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:25 pm
In every country there is hidden discrimination, this is a natural process, society needs time to understand and accept the new order of the world. I wish you patience and please show respect for the host country, try to understand them. Understand not the government, but firstly people themselves. Even in democratic countries, the opinion of the state does not always in sync with the opinion of the inhabitants.
While this is true, the first issue is acknowledgement. When the population denies through words they are not racist, but actions speak otherwise, then that is problem confounded. Having the racism is a problem, it is exacerbated when the problem is hidden.

Samael
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Re: Biggest surprise about living in Finland?

Post by Samael » Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:09 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:52 pm
I would have bought that argument a few centuries ago. I am reminded of an anecdote: A Finn and a foreigner carrying some bananas get into a train. The Finn had neither seen a foreigner nor a banana ever in his life below. The foreigner offered the Finn a banana explaining it is a fruit. Just as the Finn tasted a large bit off the banana, the train went into the tunnel. Scared the Finn shouted out: Don't eat the banana, it makes you go blind.

2023: I am not sure I buy the argument that the foreigner or the banana is unfamiliar. :)
I believe they are familiar, but still haven't really got used to them. Germany is a bit different in this sense but also far from being perfect. Another example is Netherlands, my impression they are quite fine with foreigners. US, Canada, Australia, NZ are good enough. What's difference? The only factor is time natives have spent with foreigners by getting positive experience.
network_engineer wrote: While this is true, the first issue is acknowledgement. When the population denies through words they are not racist, but actions speak otherwise, then that is problem confounded. Having the racism is a problem, it is exacerbated when the problem is hidden.
100% agree.


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