How do you prefer to learn Finnish?

[Henry-Finland]

Could not do a poll for some reason, so you can just pick a number:

How do you prefer/would you have preferred to learn Finnish? (and you had no idea of the language beforehand).

For those that have already learned Finnish:
This question is about what do you think would have suited you best, not about how you actually did it?
(Tell also that, by all means ].

1) Moved to Finland - learning phrases + words + grammar (as at school)?

2) Moved to Finland - learning first lots of phrases + words - grammar later?

3) Not living in Finland - learning phrases + words + grammar (as at school)?

4) Not living in Finland - learning first lots of phrases + words - grammar later?



I, myself, usually study languages through drowning myself into a language without any idea about grammar.
2) and 4) suits me.

Henry

[karen]

I'd prefer a Total Recall type weekend language course. Plug me in and give me a lifelong memory of Finnish and I'd be happy.

[Chiugate]

I did number 1 and am still convinced that it's the best way to learn this language..

Next month, I will be following an intensive course for one month though. This one will be mostly about memorizing words and sentences, with not as much focus on the grammar. Since it's only one month, I want to see how that learning method fits me.

[Rosamunda]

Not sure what you mean by "as at school"..... different schools do things differently. Do you mean school as in children and rote learning pre 1980s...

I think intensive is best... ie 4h per day minimum for as long as possible. It should be a mix of grammar, and lots of useful dialogue / conversation. When I was studying Finnish we never once used any authentic materials.... I find it helps a lot if you can use REAL stuff in lessons - not make believe from text books..... menus, timetables, magazines, advertisements, taped soundbytes from TV, radio... even for absolute beginners.

I'm a firm believer in "phrases" as you call it (collocation...) - learning chunks of vocabulary that go well together. Not random word-lists.

[Hank W.]

I am planning - once I get the flat into a presentable condition - to offer some "bellrinnger's School" classes. As in 7 brothers, you start wit AA PEE SEE TEE EE ÄHVÄ KEE - to learn the alphabet. I don't give a flying pig if you understand what you read. I must understand you reading the article, and you must write off my dictation and when you read I must understand you... to pass my course I'll flick in front of your face a newspapetr and you shall be able to read: tö times in lonton, koorke pushö tutei hääs sed, tät...

[Ian Lemke]

I did (am still doing) 3 and It's kind of worked for me. If you don't actually live in finland there is VERY little material to practice. I think learning Finnish from your original language first and then moving to finland would be best because you can learn the grammar and stuff better in, for example, english.
-I

[haahatus]

Knowing some of the grammar and horrible finnish before will make it possible to learn some Finnish without doing anything but just living. No I don't think reading can not made obsolote but that way people learn just a little if they hear people talk something in Finnish, otherwise it would be just sounds. Just my opinion from learning languages

[Hank W.]

Listening to movies is a great benefit.
Especially the "Kaurismäki" movies.

For American, English, French, Spanish the "Match Factory Girl" is a must to see... 1/2 hour of silence and then the first line 'one small beer'

Most foreigners sound uncomfortable because they speak too fast, so that is why Finns will change to a "fast language" = English!. Finnish is a slow language where the pauses have a meaning.

I have once held a "Finnish pub talk" course. The person who speaked out first got reprimanded. You were only allowed to stare and say mmmm...jooo.. ööö...

[Henry-Finland]

I mean with "as at school" the teaching method where the lessons are following a grammatical path. Nothing wrong with that, but for me it is easier to learn a language by concentrating on one issue per time:
1) Words
2) Phrases, short sentences.
3) Reading very simple texts. (In order to find this kind of texts, I usually read many beginners-books parallely).
4) After that I try to find short stories that I copy by hand. Write texts from books many hours per day. Thus I find the 'rhythm' as I call it and learn how to spell. Even if I do not understand every sentence the words becomes familiar. I do not have a memory of sounds, but I have a 'writing-memory'. That was how I learned English.

5) Finally I read and train also the grammar, and everything fells to place as in a puzzle.

Maybe not the easiest method, but fastest for me.
At school I learned German and Latin, or tried to, in the old fashion way where the grammar was trained like they train animals in a circus.
I did not like the method.

I think that there is never enough of 'easy texts' for those that studies Finnish. I think that people needs a lot of texts when they are studying this language. Or how?



Henry

[Henry-Finland]

I did number 1 and am still convinced that it's the best way to learn this language..

Next month, I will be following an intensive course for one month though. This one will be mostly about memorizing words and sentences, with not as much focus on the grammar. Since it's only one month, I want to see how that learning method fits me.

It will be very interesting to hear how it goes/went.
Please write about it. At least every second day.


Henry

[Socke]

For American, English, Frnch, Spanish the "match factory girl" is a must to see in my course... 1/2 hours and then 'one small beer'

Hehe, I watched the movie and was wondering after a few minutes if they ever would begin to speak

[Jussi]

i am doing number 1, and it seems to me to be the best, because you can start to use the languge properly from the start, and you can coonstruct your own sentences if you know how the grammmar works. besides with all the suffixes its no use just knowing the basic genitive forms of the words...you need the suffixes to make a coherent sentence. anyway thats just my little opiniion.


Cheers




Jussi

[Henry-Finland]

i am doing number 1, and it seems to me to be the best, because you can start to use the languge properly from the start, and you can coonstruct your own sentences if you know how the grammmar works. besides with all the suffixes its no use just knowing the basic genitive forms of the words...you need the suffixes to make a coherent sentence. anyway thats just my little opiniion.

Cheers


Jussi

I do not count suffixes as grammar
The suffixes can be showed with on picture: talossa, talolla, talolle, talolta and so on.

Henry

[kmboll]

Most foreigners sound uncomfortable because they speak too fast, so that is why Finns will change to a "fast language" = English!. Finnish is a slow language where the pauses have a meaning.
:

you'd probably enjoy talking to me then Hank, nothing I say in finnish comes out fast. Although that still doesn't necessarily mean you can understand what I'm trying to say.

[Henry-Finland]

My wife had about 3.430 questions about the partitive.
From there I came to the conclusion that number
"2) Moved to Finland - learning first lots of phrases + words - grammar later?" has to be used.
That was after I saw these rules:

Singular

A word ending in a single vowel (except for i and e)
Use the partitive singular stem (in this case, the same as the basic stem) and -a or -ä (depending on vowel harmony).

A word ending in a double vowel
Use the partitive singular stem and -ta or -tä (depending on vowel harmony).

A word ending in a single -i
Find out if the final -i changes to -e in the genitive stem or remains an -i.

IF THE FINAL -I CHANGES TO -E AND DOES NOT END IN -HI, -LI, -NI, -RI OR -SI
Use the partitive singular stem with -e in place of the final -i plus -a or -ä (depending on vowel harmony).
IF THE FINAL -I CHANGES TO -E AND DOES END IN -HI, -LI, -NI, -RI OR -SI
Use the partitive singular stem without the -e and -ta or -tä (depending on vowel harmony).
IF THE FINAL -I REMAINS -I
Use the partitive singular stem retaining the final -i plus -a or -ä (depending on vowel harmony).

A word ending in a dipthong
Use the partitive singular stem (in this case, the same as the basic stem) and -a or -ä (depending on vowel harmony).

A word ending in a single -e
Use the partitive singular stem (in this case, the same as the basic stem) and -tta or -ttä (depending on vowel harmony).

A word ending in any consonant (except for non-plural t)
Use the partitive singular stem and -ta or -tä (depending on vowel harmony).

I discuss this in some other threads also here in 'Kielikoulu', just wanted to answer you here.

I have to say, that my brains can't handle the rules above.
I would need tons of examples, in order to get it (into my stubborn skull).

Before I begin to write day and night, I would like to have as many comments as possible. From gals & guys that are at different levels.

The quote above was taken from here:
http://www.uta.fi/~km56049/finnish/partitive.html

Henry