Have an English question

[karen]

I think I was taught that if a complete sentence is in parenthesis, the period would be included inside. I've been reading through some guidelines for writing reports and found conflicting text.

Direct quotations are to be used with care. They are always to be put inside quotation marks. In these cases, the source reference is always indicated as a separate ”sentence”, i.e. a period is put at its end (note: in English the period is placed outside the parenthesis, while in Finnish it is put inside the parenthesis).

An example (translator’s translation into English):

”The idea that there is no need to concentrate on anything specific but onwhat ‘strikes through’ some sensory channel opens up surprising possibilities for concentration also in tough conditions. It could even be argued that the tougher the conditions, the easier it is to concentrate.” (Tahkokallio 1992, 127).

"Ajatus, ettei tarvitse keskittyä mihinkään määrättyyn vaan siihen, mikä kullakin hetkellä ´lyö läpi´ jostain aistikanavasta, antaa yllättäviä mahdollisuuksia keskittyä hankalissakin tilanteissa. Voidaan jopa väittää, että mitä hankalampi tilanne, sen helpompi on keskittyä." (Tahkokallio 1992, 127.)

Is this correct? It seems very wrong to me. It's been years since I've written a report, so go easy on me

[Mark I.]

At first glance, I would use period outside the parenthesis, as it "just feels proper". So, same as you. However, when writing some report or such which has tight rules, like publications at universities (thesis), I'd have to check out.

I found these rules about scientific writing (Unversity of Jyväskylä):

http://www.avoin.jyu.fi/tieteellinen_ki ... danto4.htm

"Lähdeviitteistä pitää näkyä, kuinka laajaan tekstikokonaisuuteen ne viittaavat. Periaatteessa erotetaan kaksi tapaa: voidaan viitata joko yhteen tai useampaan virkkeeseen. Jos viite koskee vain edeltävää virkettä, virkkeen perässä oleva piste tulee viitteen jälkeen ja jää sulkujen ulkopuolelle (Hirsjärvi ym. 1997, 333). Viite on siis osa virkettä.

Jos viite koskee useampia edeltäviä virkkeitä, viimeisen virkkeen piste on ennen lähdeviitteitä ja lähdeviitteen perässä on oma piste, joka tulee sulkujen sisäpuolelle. Viite muodostaa siis omaan virkkeensä. (Hirsjärvi ym. 1997, 334.)

Lähdeviitteitä on myös mahdollista käyttää niin, että kirjoittajan nimi mainitaan tekstissä, jolloin viitteeseen riittää pelkkä vuosiluku ja sivunumero, kuten Hirsjärvi ym. (1997, 330-331) asian esittävät. "


So, according to those rules, the decisive factor about use of period inside or outside parethesis, is wether reference is pointing to all previous sentences, or only to the previous sentence. In the latter case, period is placed outside parenthesis, and visa versa.

[karen]

Okey dokey. I'll follow those rules for report writing and then go back to what feels right for everyday living. (If you know what I mean.)

[Hank W.]

Yes, but English and Finnish have different grammatical rules regarding these two.

[Mark I.]

I'm starting to get confused


http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/ ... r_mla.html

"Quotations
When you directly quote the works of others in your paper, you will format quotations differently depending on whether they are long or short quotations. Formatting quotations using MLA style is covered in section 3.9 of the MLA Style Manual (which begins on page 102), and section 2.7 of the of the Handbook for Writing Research Papers (which begins on page 80). Here are some basic guidelines for incorporating quotations into your paper.

Short Quotations
To indicate short quotations (fewer than four typed lines of prose or three lines of verse) in your text, enclose the quotation within double quotation marks and incorporate it into your text. Provide the author and specific page citation (in the case of verse, provide line numbers) in the text, and include a complete reference in the works-cited list. Punctuation marks such as periods, commas, and semicolons should appear after the parenthetical citation. Question marks and exclamation points should appear within the quotation marks if they are a part of the quoted passage but after the parenthetical citation if they are a part of your text.

For example:

According to some, dreams express "profound aspects of personality" (Foulkes 184), though others disagree.

According to Foulkes's study, dreams may express "profound aspects of personality" (184).

Is it possible that dreams may express "profound aspects of personality" (Foulkes 184)?

Cullen concludes, "Of all the things that happened there/ That's all I remember" (11-12).


Long Quotations
Place quotations longer than four typed lines in a free-standing block of typewritten lines, and omit quotation marks. Start the quotation on a new line, indented one inch from the left margin, and maintain double-spacing. Your parenthetical citation should come after the closing punctuation mark. When quoting verse, maintain original line breaks. (You should maintain double-spacing throughout your essay.)

For example:

Nelly Dean treats Heathcliff poorly and dehumanizes him throughout her narration:

They entirely refused to have it in bed with them, or even in their room, and I had no more sense, so, I put it on the landing of the stairs, hoping it would be gone on the morrow. By chance, or else attracted by hearing his voice, it crept to Mr. Earnshaw's door, and there he found it on quitting his chamber. Inquiries were made as to how it got there; I was obliged to confess, and in recompense for my cowardice and inhumanity was sent out of the house. (Brontë 78)

In her poem "Sources," Adrienne Rich explores the roles of women in shaping their world:

The faithful drudging child

the child at the oak desk whose penmanship,

hard work, style will win her prizes

becomes the woman with a mission, not to win prizes

but to change the laws of history. (23)"

[GaryK]

Is this correct? It seems very wrong to me. It's been years since I've written a report, so go easy on me

A book I always go to in times of trouble is Warriner's "English Grammar and Composition" from 1958. Clause number three under rule 31s says the following:

(3) Punctuation marks are used within parentheses when they belong with the parenthetical matter. Do not, however, place a punctuation mark within parentheses if it belongs to the sentence as a whole.

Examples:
- One synthetic material, Borazon, is as hard as a diamond (indeed, slightly harder); furthermore, under pressure ...
- Mary's remark ("How messy you look!") was certainly uncalled for.

[mrshourula]

Maybe different in UK.

Note that sentence-ending periods should go outside the parentheses if the parenthetical remark is part of a larger sentence, but inside the parentheses if it's not embedded in a larger sentence. This is an example of the first (notice the punctuation goes outside, because we're still part of that outer sentence). (This is an example of the second, because we're no longer inside any other sentence; the parenthesis is its own sentence.)

[karen]

But is it different because it's a reference? It looks that way in MHH's example. But that is from U of Jyväskälä. Has anyone seen anything about references that wasn't written in Finland?

[mrshourula]

I think it will depend on what publication style you need to use (i.e, APA, MLA, Chicago, etc.).

I use APA and here is a link that shows how it is done in that style

http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/online/cite6.html

[mrshourula]

I think it will depend on what publication style you need to use (i.e, APA, MLA, Chicago, etc.).

I use APA and here is a link that shows how it is done in that style

http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/online/cite6.html

[mrshourula]

I think it will depend on what publication style you need to use (i.e, APA, MLA, Chicago, etc.).

I use APA and here is a link that shows how it is done in that style

http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/online/cite6.html

[RA]

Different publications, institutions, schools etc. have different requirements about how you reference, so you need to ask the people you're writing the report for, how they want it done. I just finished writing a report and I have to redo all my referencing because how I did it, is not how their department does it. This, despite the fact that we're in the same faculty. Bummer. And now I've even got to put in the urls of internet sources into the main text, even though they're in my reference list. Uggh, I'm going to have really messy looking text when I'm done.

But usually what I've seen is this:

text, text, text (Name year, page).


But if it's a longer quote like a paragraph or more than 2-3 lines, then it's

text text text text text text text text text text
text text text text text text text text text text
text text text text text text text text. (Name year, page).

The rules apply according to institution/publication requirement, regardless of language.