Residence permits
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whatever2005
- Posts: 32
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Residence permits
Can someone please explain what they do when you apply at the police for this permit? Do they do a full police check like all records etc in Finland and UK? What is the process? What grounds can they refuse a permit? If you have a job or the money to live there is that enough? If you had a bit of trouble before in Finland but the case got chucked out is that a reason to refuse a permit? I dunno, no idea. Can someone help me out? Thanks.
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
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UK they would not give a flying pig on Dublin airport... Finland is a bit different. See there is the 'police files' and then the 'criminal registrry'. So say you were a "known" person and you ask to get a RP they might be slightly reluctant.
However, you have been here so
- you have the number (its the same until you die)
- you have a bank account (hopefully)
so the RP for a limey is anyhow just a formality - you're not applying, rather registering.
So as long as you don't have a deported clause it should go through...
However, you have been here so
- you have the number (its the same until you die)
- you have a bank account (hopefully)
so the RP for a limey is anyhow just a formality - you're not applying, rather registering.
So as long as you don't have a deported clause it should go through...
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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superiorinferior
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- Location: Helsinki
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
- Posts: 29973
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:00 pm
- Location: Mushroom Mountain
- Contact:
Theres "deportation" and errr... lets speak finnish
karkoitus: deportation/eviction/exorcionism
maastakäännytys/käännyttäminen= turning around....
so a deportation means the court has banned you. a käännytys is you were told to piss off the same path you came from by the police. its like murder, manslaughter and homicide in Finnish law
karkoitus: deportation/eviction/exorcionism
maastakäännytys/käännyttäminen= turning around....
so a deportation means the court has banned you. a käännytys is you were told to piss off the same path you came from by the police. its like murder, manslaughter and homicide in Finnish law
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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whatever2005
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:22 pm
Hi
HiyaHank W. wrote:UK they would not give a flying pig on Dublin airport... Finland is a bit different. See there is the 'police files' and then the 'criminal registrry'. So say you were a "known" person and you ask to get a RP they might be slightly reluctant.
However, you have been here so
- you have the number (its the same until you die)
- you have a bank account (hopefully)
so the RP for a limey is anyhow just a formality - you're not applying, rather registering.
So as long as you don't have a deported clause it should go through...
I was only there 5 days in total and was told by the policeman who took my statement I could stay 3 months and apply for a permit after that time if I wanted, but I went home instead. I never stayed long enough to ask for a rp. Oh of course I wasn't deported. I was released without charge and the case was closed a little later afterwards when I got back home. Is any particular KIND of case worse than others to be suspected of and subsequently closed? I really liked Finland and want to live there
Does that make any difference?
Cheers.
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superiorinferior
- Posts: 2245
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: Helsinki
Not sure what exactly the word was, (and not going into detailsHank W. wrote:Theres "deportation" and errr... lets speak finnish
karkoitus: deportation/eviction/exorcionism
maastakäännytys/käännyttäminen= turning around....
so a deportation means the court has banned you. a käännytys is you were told to piss off the same path you came from by the police. its like murder, manslaughter and homicide in Finnish law
) but when found, he (a long-time expat here who got into a heap of trouble, let's say) was held in the Katajanokka foreigners detention centre and then told to leave the country (as in escorted by police on the plane all the way to Blighty). Now if that ain't a real deportation, I wonder what they do for a real one??
A couple of weeks later he was back and looking for a job.... which he still has.
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whatever2005
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:22 pm
Hi!
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand? Am I let off and can go back/get a permit? And how sure are you?Hank W. wrote:That is a "turning around" , so oul limey is off all them hooks...
:S Really desperately want to go live there later this year.
Thank you.
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whatever2005
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:22 pm
Hi
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL still confused tho really :SHank W. wrote:How the flaming feck can you appreciate some local geezer drunk as a lord?
Contact the bleedin Embassy if you want a...
err...
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whatever2005
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:22 pm
OK
Let's assume I am let back in and blah blah. Is it easy to get a permit if you have the money but no job? If you can prove you can live a couple of years there with no financial worries, do they grant this easily? Or do you need some "valid" reason to stay there :S I've never applied to stay in any countries before and well, frightened of being turned down even though I have the money to buy a house AND live without a job for 2 years. I'm worried all cos of this dead case. Can I appeal if a permit was declined? Do they deport you/ban you? When can you go and try to apply again, or is it apply once and you're out? What does happen here and are permits very often declined? Sorry to ask all these questions, I just have no idea. Does anyone know if I stayed 3 months and left when I could go back and stay another 3 months and leave? Is this even possible? I really hate this. Thanks for any help.
Oh btw, I found this pdf at the http://www.maistraatti.fi/en/index.html website:
http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi/vrk ... ration.pdf
What does it mean you don't need a residence permit? P 6. Citizens of EU do not need a residence permit but need to register their right to stay with the local police etc... blah blah... Why, if that is the case, does everyone go on about residence permits? And can ya get chucked out at that stage too? Who knows? Very confused.
Oh btw, I found this pdf at the http://www.maistraatti.fi/en/index.html website:
http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi/vrk ... ration.pdf
What does it mean you don't need a residence permit? P 6. Citizens of EU do not need a residence permit but need to register their right to stay with the local police etc... blah blah... Why, if that is the case, does everyone go on about residence permits? And can ya get chucked out at that stage too? Who knows? Very confused.
There is an awful lot of nonsense in this thread.
A few basic principles:
1) The right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's there in paragraph 2 of article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms:
2) Any decision to refuse a residence permit (assuming that the person concerned even needs one) will have to specify the grounds for refusal (this is a requirement of the Administration Act and of general administrative law). The "case that was thrown out" cannot lawfully be cited as grounds. The decision is open to appeal to an administrative court, which should rectify the matter. If the court fails to do this, then its judgement may be reviewed by the Supreme Administrative Court. If the Supreme Administrative Court likewise fails to correct the problem, then the matter may be reviewed by the European Court of Human Rights, which is the final arbiter enforcing the European Convention.
In other words, there is no way for the authority to "hide" the effects of the "case that was thrown out", if this was the motivation for refusing the permit.
3) The general term used for forcibly removing a person from the territory of a State without that person's consent or co-operation is "expulsion". There are various forms of lawful expulsion, including extradition, deportation, refusal of entry and one or two other controversial forms such as returning of children to the jurisdiction of the competent court of custody.
Deportation (karkotus) applies to foreigners who have been formally admitted to Finland, either by issuing an individual residence permit or by recognising that the individual is covered by a general right of residence. The threshold for deporting an EU citizen is extremely high. To deport an EU citizen the State must justify the claim that the person concerned constitutes an ongoing threat to public safety or public health. It is not enough merely to refer to a criminal record; there must also be concrete reasons for believing that serious criminal behaviour will continue. Even if a deportation is possible, the Schengen agreement makes it very difficult to enforce the associated exclusion order.
Refusal of entry (käännyttäminen) applies to foreigners who have never been formally admitted, but who have managed to enter Finland anyway (often under visa exemption agreements, but also by sneaking into the country in other ways). The threshold of acceptable grounds in such cases is much lower and although the decision is open to appeal, it may be enforced despite the appeal pending (unless the appeal court rules otherwise).
It sounds to me like the original author of this thread has no reason to worry.
Kind regards,
Daryl
A few basic principles:
1) The right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's there in paragraph 2 of article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms:
One obvious consequence of this principle is that a "case that was thrown out" cannot affect your rights.Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.
2) Any decision to refuse a residence permit (assuming that the person concerned even needs one) will have to specify the grounds for refusal (this is a requirement of the Administration Act and of general administrative law). The "case that was thrown out" cannot lawfully be cited as grounds. The decision is open to appeal to an administrative court, which should rectify the matter. If the court fails to do this, then its judgement may be reviewed by the Supreme Administrative Court. If the Supreme Administrative Court likewise fails to correct the problem, then the matter may be reviewed by the European Court of Human Rights, which is the final arbiter enforcing the European Convention.
In other words, there is no way for the authority to "hide" the effects of the "case that was thrown out", if this was the motivation for refusing the permit.
3) The general term used for forcibly removing a person from the territory of a State without that person's consent or co-operation is "expulsion". There are various forms of lawful expulsion, including extradition, deportation, refusal of entry and one or two other controversial forms such as returning of children to the jurisdiction of the competent court of custody.
Deportation (karkotus) applies to foreigners who have been formally admitted to Finland, either by issuing an individual residence permit or by recognising that the individual is covered by a general right of residence. The threshold for deporting an EU citizen is extremely high. To deport an EU citizen the State must justify the claim that the person concerned constitutes an ongoing threat to public safety or public health. It is not enough merely to refer to a criminal record; there must also be concrete reasons for believing that serious criminal behaviour will continue. Even if a deportation is possible, the Schengen agreement makes it very difficult to enforce the associated exclusion order.
Refusal of entry (käännyttäminen) applies to foreigners who have never been formally admitted, but who have managed to enter Finland anyway (often under visa exemption agreements, but also by sneaking into the country in other ways). The threshold of acceptable grounds in such cases is much lower and although the decision is open to appeal, it may be enforced despite the appeal pending (unless the appeal court rules otherwise).
It sounds to me like the original author of this thread has no reason to worry.
Kind regards,
Daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren
Judging from the miniscule Ozzie flag and the London location, you should be able to enter Finland under visa exemption arrangements (assuming you haven't spent more than 90 days in Finland over the last 6 months). After all, who is to say that you will not leave again and come back on 1 May?vampe wrote:I'm wondering.. Im waiting my residence visa to come through , if it starts from say.. the 1st of may , but i come in on the 28th of April , is that not a problem , as long as I don't work in that amount of time ?
I'd assume now , but hell who knows.
In practice this is de minimis. Even a zealous border official is unlikely to be interested in the first place, and the case, if any arises, is going nowhere.
Daryl
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren
yep we can , I was just curious as to how it would work , but i think thats what I'm going to do anyways.daryl wrote:Judging from the miniscule Ozzie flag and the London location, you should be able to enter Finland under visa exemption arrangements (assuming you haven't spent more than 90 days in Finland over the last 6 months). After all, who is to say that you will not leave again and come back on 1 May?vampe wrote:I'm wondering.. Im waiting my residence visa to come through , if it starts from say.. the 1st of may , but i come in on the 28th of April , is that not a problem , as long as I don't work in that amount of time ?
I'd assume now , but hell who knows.
In practice this is de minimis. Even a zealous border official is unlikely to be interested in the first place, and the case, if any arises, is going nowhere.
Daryl
