Eu directive

[Nikita]

Does somebody know something about that:

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRelease ... anguage=en

It seems that Finland has no rush at all...

[Nikita]

Another link for clarifying the issue for those who are lost:

http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/ ... nts_en.htm#

[Hank W.]

Hmmm... I am just wondering what is a difference between say a Russian or a German been here 5 years and is a permanent resident... OK, so you cannot vote in elections, but otherwise...

[sy]

I'm not sure the details of the directive. But a quick quote from that page says:

will also have the right to reside in another Member State for employment, study or other purposes on the conditions set out in the directive.

That means the Russian with permanent residence in Finland can also go to, e.g., Sweden, to work or study there and get benefits from Sweden. Currently permanent residents (non-EU) in Finland can only travel to other Schengen countries for at most 3 months without a visa.

[Hank W.]

Ah yes. But then it would be Sweden that needs to ratify the law. Now say you're a Russian and are a resident in Sweden and want to move to Finland... It seems they hadn't read all the directives when they rehashed the new law up.

[Nikita]

Exactly Hank,
the benefit (for the foreigner) is that the long-term residents of third country doesn't need to go throuth the whole tedious process for obtaining the residence in order to work in another EU country member. ...or study, of course. In other words, being a long-term residents gives you some rights, a bit similar (...hm!) to those to the EU citizents... like move freelly for more than 3 months, right to work, study, vote, have a bank account in Finland during your vaccation in summer...
Well, I think we all could foresee what the benefits for the 2 country of residence are...
Actually thil now, the long-term immigrants haven't had any right more than any other immigrant (even compared to those who have a 1 year residents). And, don't forget, in the most of the cases, long-term residents must not be compared with the "newcommers" (although, they couldn't be compared with the EU-citizens) ! ... outot linnut..

Of course, the Directive says, that there is a set of requisites that every country must probably imply in order to make a kind of seleccion. But, still, Finland seems to be amoung those who are gaining time..!

Hank, what do you mean by:
"It seems they hadn't read all the directives when they rehashed the new law up."
What is this "new law"? Do you mean the Alians act?

[Hank W.]

Yeah, I mean they were wheeling and dealing with it for so long.

[Nikita]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Finland is Finland (with all pros and contras) but is not an exception of the general rule
I'm afraid, they will keep on dealing and wheeling with, without any useful result for even longer

Well, hope dies last

[daryl]

This entire question was already discussed in the thread started by baris on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:52 am: Post subject: Long-term residence permit for third country nationals in EU.

As far as I can see, it is in the nature of the Directive that no individual can lose rights due to this delay in transposing the Directive into the national law of various Member States. This is because there is a "burning-in" period of qualification for the new permit type and because, in the absence of national implementation measures, a Directive is directly applicable in the Member States anyway.

daryl

[Nikita]

This entire question was already discussed in the thread started by baris on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:52 am: Post subject: Long-term residence permit for third country nationals in EU.

As far as I can see, it is in the nature of the Directive that no individual can lose rights due to this delay in transposing the Directive into the national law of various Member States. This is because there is a "burning-in" period of qualification for the new permit type and because, in the absence of national implementation measures, a Directive is directly applicable in the Member States anyway.

daryl

Mmmm, are you sure???? I like your interpretation of the conditions, but could you quote the texte of the Directive that leads you to think so?

I'm sorry for repeating the thread... I didn't see it before, although I looked for it...

[Jussi]

here's the thread link if anyone missed it...


bb/viewtopic.php?t=13091&highlight=long ... +nationals

[daryl]

This entire question was already discussed in the thread started by baris on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:52 am: Post subject: Long-term residence permit for third country nationals in EU.

As far as I can see, it is in the nature of the Directive that no individual can lose rights due to this delay in transposing the Directive into the national law of various Member States. This is because there is a "burning-in" period of qualification for the new permit type and because, in the absence of national implementation measures, a Directive is directly applicable in the Member States anyway.

daryl

Mmmm, are you sure???? I like your interpretation of the conditions, but could you quote the texte of the Directive that leads you to think so?

I'm sorry for repeating the thread... I didn't see it before, although I looked for it...

Actually it's good that someone keeps me on my toes. To my understanding, and strictly speaking, a Directive that has passed its implementation deadline has direct effect. This means that individuals can require Member States to honour their commitments towards those individuals, even if the Member States have not enacted national laws implementing the Directive.

There is a detailed, but fairly readable explanation of this principle in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_directive

Take a look at the 4th paragraph, just before the contents box.

This Directive confers individual rights vis-á-vis the Member States, and it gained direct effect after the implementation deadline expired.

It occurs to me that I may have read the Directive itself incorrectly. I had previously assumed that the five-year qualifying period would begin from no sooner than the date of implementation of the Directive. It occurs to me, however, that this is not necessarily the case, and it may be that some third-country nationals have already qualified for freedom of movement within the Community.

If this is correct, then I have a suggestion for sy as to how he can accelerate his pending and long-overdue citizenship application: simply request the permit referred to in the Directive. This will put a rocket under the Interior Ministry, either to create a procedure on the fly (horror!) or to issue Finnish citizenship and thereby render the application unnecessary. Report any resistance to the application process (even bewliderment by the junior official behind the glass) to the European Commission as wilful obstruction of Community objectives and appeal any refusal to the Administrative Court of Helsinki, with an immediate petition for the court to refer to the European Court of Justice for a binding ruling. If the Administrative Court of Helsinki turns down the appeal without requesting a ruling, then appeal to the Supreme Administrative Court and complain to the European Commission again that the Finnish Judiciary is either not independent or incompetent to apply Community Law. "Finland obstructs Tampere process" would be a nice headline to read in the European press.

All good, clean, constructive fun!

daryl

[Hank W.]

with an immediate petition for the court to refer to the European Court of Justice for a binding ruling. If the Administrative Court of Helsinki turns down the appeal without requesting a ruling, then appeal to the Supreme Administrative Court and complain to the European Commission again that the Finnish Judiciary is either not independent or incompetent to apply Community Law.

Which will take, apauttiarallaa five years (as with the car tax), after which they will change a comma somewhere and the residence permit will be in some backlog for another year or three...

[daryl]

with an immediate petition for the court to refer to the European Court of Justice for a binding ruling. If the Administrative Court of Helsinki turns down the appeal without requesting a ruling, then appeal to the Supreme Administrative Court and complain to the European Commission again that the Finnish Judiciary is either not independent or incompetent to apply Community Law.

Which will take, apauttiarallaa five years (as with the car tax), after which they will change a comma somewhere and the residence permit will be in some backlog for another year or three...

The point of the procedure is not to secure an individual remedy, but to harrass an incompetent administration and make it clear that some of us care about the system, even if the bureaucrats in certain government branches do not give high priority to the rights of immigrants.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, snarl and you get better service

daryl

[sy]

If this is correct, then I have a suggestion for sy as to how he can accelerate his pending and long-overdue citizenship application: simply request the permit referred to in the Directive.

OK, this sounds fun! I'll try to read the directive this weekend, and see what I can do later.