Finnish citizenship by birth (3rd country nationals).

[network_engineer]

Hi all,

Does anybody know more about acquisition of Finnish citizenship by birth? One of my acquaintances (Finnish PR holder) was told by the Alien’s affairs unit that his newborn would have to go through the four years of the continuous permit type and would then be issued a PR at the end of the four year period. On enquiring if she could apply for Finnish citizenship on the basis of birth, he received a negative answer.

I am a bit confused. In fact, the negative reply seemed to contradict the following documents:

1. UVI’s own internal guidelines (see the link under)
http://www.uvi.fi/download.asp?id=Finni ... BF82D0E996}


2. Furthermore, as per section 5 of the Finnish constitution
Finnish version:
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1999/19990731

English version:
http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 990731.pdf

citizenship is granted on the basis of birth and the nationality of the child’s parents. Now, I must admit, I am a bit confused about this one. Although, it says “ja” (i.e. and), I am not sure if it means by a combination of birth and by the citizenship of its parents. My confusion is based on the following.
a) You cannot grant citizenship unless the child is born, so I am not sure what is the
b) Even if the child is born out of Finland, but one of the parents is Finnish, then the child does acquire Finnish citizenship.

The English translation does not make it any easier as it say “A child acquires Finnish citizenship at birth and through the citizenship of its parents, as provided in more detail by an Act”. I.e. The use of ‘and’ between birth and through gives me the understanding that it is either by birth in Finland or through it parents.

Any ideas? Comments?

Thanks.


PS: Question to the moderator: I believe(?) I have applied the tags correctly, should it not show the text as a hyperlink??? I have also set my HTML to on, but still shows as off!!!

[Richard]

PS: Question to the moderator: I believe(?) I have applied the tags correctly, should it not show the text as a hyperlink??? I have also set my HTML to on, but still shows as off!!!

I'm not a moderator, but you don't need the color and underlining tags.

Click edit, then modify and use the preview button to see what your post will look like.

[Jussi]

As Richard has said, just remove the tags and it will automatically hyperlink.

[network_engineer]

Hi!

Thanks. OK, it worded to some extent, but again, the first link is not complete. Furthermore, I am a bit interested in why they were not working in the first place. The other thing is rather than including the URL/link, I'd like to put in a hyperlink.

Thanks.

[Richard]

Hi!

Thanks. OK, it worded to some extent, but again, the first link is not complete. Furthermore, I am a bit interested in why they were not working in the first place. The other thing is rather than including the URL/link, I'd like to put in a hyperlink.

Thanks.

Use the url=whatever syntax, then between the tags put your text e.g

click here

links to the same url as this

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1999/19990731

or this

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1999/19990731

click quote on this, and you'll see what I did.

[Idefix]

Try to read here, it might help (?):

"A child acquires Finnish citizenship at birth if

the child's mother is a Finnish citizen;
the child's father is a Finnish citizen and the parents are married;
the child's father is a Finnish citizen, the child is born out of wedlock, and paternity has been established;
the child's father who died before the child was born was a Finnish citizen and who was married to the child's mother at the time of his death; or
the child's father, who died before the birth of the child, was a Finnish citizen and the child was born in Finland out of wedlock and the father's paternity was established."

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_nationality_law

I believe Finland is like Sweden; only being born in Finland is not enough for citizenship if not one of the parents is.

[Hank W.]

I am a bit confused.

What is there to be confused about?
Birthplace and parents do count.
Its an easy inverted polish logic; calculate nationality (F=Finnish A=Alien X=unknown) for Child, C when Mommy(M) and Daddy (D) have varying nationalities...

If M=F then C=F
If D=F then C=F
If M or D=F then C=F

If M=A then C=A
If M=A and D=A then C=A
If M=X and D=A then C=A

however;
If M=X and D=X then C=F



You posted the guideline:

Birth in Finland
A child of foreign parents who is born in
Finland will acquire Finnish citizenship if it
cannot automatically acquire its parents’
citizenship. If the child acquires its parents’
citizenship automatically or is entitled to
acquire it upon registration of the birth, after
establishment of paternity or by declaration,
it will not acquire Finnish citizenship at birth.
A child born in Finland will acquire Finnish
citizenship if there is no information on the
citizenship of its parents or their statelessness.

Finland adheres mainlyl to the jus sanguinis principle, and jus locus in special cases only, whereas say USA is always adhering to jus locus, and instances of jus sanguinis are special cases. In Europe almost all, even Ireland these days, adhere to the jus sanguinis principle as the primary one.

[RA]

Nice, Hank!!
Though of course the equations that result in C=F may not hold true if C also holds citizenship of a country that does not have an agreement of dual citizenship with Finland. So in that case if C has to choose either F or A citizenship.

[Hank W.]

Well, that isn't "at birth" unless chosen by the parents.

Of course then long-term residence in Finland as a child entitles one to apply for citizenship, but the question here was "automagically at birth"

[RA]

Yes, that's what actually I meant. In such a situation where the child is entitled to both citizenships at birth, but the two countries don't allow it, the parents have to choose for the child.

I'm not sure about this though, when the child is 16 (s)he is asked for confirmation of relinquishing one citizenship over the other.

[jamesfc]

I have five children all born in England (to a Finnish Mother and I'm British) - four now have Finnish passports and citizenship even though they have never lived in Finland . The only one who has retained his British passport and citizenship - has lived in Helsinki for the last 8 years! (would you want to be conscripted into the army?)

If you live in an European Union state its all academic anyway , you can live in Finland and have all the benefits apart from conscription and voting.

[permanent]

One interesting issue is that, if an alien is born in Finland
to parents holding PR status the child has to go
through continuous permit type and then get PR!
Why is this? It will be interesting to know the law
with regards to PR at birth!:)

Thanks

[sy]

The Aliens Act doesn't single out this particular case, that's why the child goes through the same process as other foreigners.

Anyway, the child will get A-type permit. That's enough to enjoy the benefits as other children.

[network_engineer]

OK, thanks for the replies and the "equations"!!! Although, I, personally could have done without the equations!!!

1.
My basic issue (as long as nobody clears out my understanding of the Finnish language) is that based on the Constitution, citizenship is also granted upon birth in Finland without a dependancy on the parents citizenship. If it is granted only on the basis of the parents citizenship, there would be no reason to mention birth, unless the argument is that citizenship cannot be granted to one who is not yet born. Is that correct?

2. If the above is correct, then an Act cannot deny a right granted by the Finnish Constitution and a decree cannot overrule/deny a right granted by an Act ratified by the Parliament.

That is precisely why I did NOT include a reference to the Act, which is drafted by the Ulkomaalaisosasto under the Ministry of the Interior and I will not comment further on that.

My basic question is (without reference to the Act) what does the constitution say? As in my first post, while I understand Finnish, the use of "ja" (and) kind of confuses me... see reasoning as in my first post.

Sy: I agree that the "A" permit gives him/her the same rights as other children. The question is what is the right given by the Finnish constitution?

3. If my understanding of the text is correct and the constitution does imply grant of citizenship by birth, then one can also apply for it citing reference to the Finnish constitution. Correct?

But I guess, Daryl, if you are reading this, you could give the best interpretation.

Thanks.

WBR

[Hank W.]

The Finnish constitution says clearly "A child acquires Finnish citizenship at birth and through the citizenship of its parents, as provided in more detail by
an Act."

At birth, as provided by the Act. If the Act says the child gains citizenship at birth if its painted green, then that is what the constitution says.