Integrate into a Swedish-speaking neighborhood?

[Hairi T.]

I wonder whether other forum members would comment on this question:

Is it easier for foreign children to adapt to the culture of Finland in Swedish-speaking communities?

Searching on "Swedish" and "integrate" on this website, I found 1. advice to a student admitted to Swedish and Finnish universities that he should go to Sweden, because _integration is faster and the _Swedish language is easier. 2. a thread starting "Finland's future would be better with fewer foreigners" discussing the _Swedish problem with _integration, and 3. the seamless _integration of successful _Swedish and other business models.

But a recent advertisement on FinlandForum suggests that it may be a good idea. E.g., if you moved here with a 2-year-old English speaking child, after six years you might that your children are fluent in Swedish and can manage in English, and you might find yourself advertising for an English-speaking native to help your child learn school-ish English, in preparation for a move abroad. Of course, the move away could happen after you made your daughter learn Finnish but, then, why all the pain?
(I have decided not to link to that ad, since I have no idea who they are or what languages they speak. Even so I hope you'll believe that I've tried to check some of this site's 535 hits on "Swedish," in case this issue already got discussed).

I guess that lots of foreigners coming here for temporary (say, 5-year) work might decide to integrate if the children could learn to understand teachers before starting school. The time between the children's arrival and when they would understand most of what a teacher says in class might be much less for integration into a Swedish-speaking community, than for integration into a Finnish-speaking community.

If I had a good job in the center of Helsinki and came from a country where commuting >15km is common (I don't, I do), would it be reasonable to try to settle in a Swedish-speaking community?

So why didn't I do this? I can't remember. It is possible that when I came to Finland, I didn't really consider the Swedish option. Perhaps I read in the newspaper that Swedish-speaking Finns are a minority with some troubles, and I decided not to participate in their troubles, or perhaps I just head Finnish all around me and assumed that THAT is what we needed in order to integrate. Only now am I stopping to wonder whether things would have been (or be) easier if I had simply made a priority of moving to a Swedish-speaking area and integrating THERE. I told a German friend recently that the train announcements in Swedish are unintelligible to me, and he looked at me like I've got extra heads. He's German, he made a small effort to understand Swedish, and never bothered with Finnish. Maybe my family has worked very hard for something that could have been easy.

[EP]

would it be reasonable to try to settle in a Swedish-speaking community

That would mean settling in some small town in Pohjanmaa (like Gamla Karleby). But would they have had jobs? There are really no Swedish speaking communities (except in the archipelago or small town Ekenäs, but you are not a fisherman). And even there people usually also speak Finnish. I don´t see any big difference between Swedish-speakers and Finnish-speakers.

[Hairi T.]

>15km

Kauniainen is 15 km from from Helsinki. There may be other places nearby, too, or maybe Meilahti has areas of Swedish-speaking concentration....

[sinikala]

Before I came to Finland I heard Swedish was an official language here. As I studied German at school & lived some years in Norway as a child, I thought it might be easier to learn Swedish rather than Finnish.

And for the newly arrived foreigner the Swedish signs & labels on food packets etc were indeed very helpful.

I suppose if you contract the Swedish speaking strain of Hank's HBS (hot blonde syndrome); or if you live somewhere like Kokkola with ca. 50% Swedish speakers, then no problem. Otherwise you may find it very limiting, far better to learn Finnish.

If I understand correctly, native swedish speakers make up a very small proportion of the population, and all those I've met speak Finnish like a foreigner could only dream of ever speaking (in spite of how native Finnish speakers might say that such and such a person makes loads of mistakes).

Additionally, I'm not sure if it's possible to manage only in Swedish here. Others may know different

[EP]

In 2002 there were 8500 inhabitants in Kauniainen: 58 % Finnish-speaking and 39 % Swedish-speaking. And they live mixed, there is no Swedish-speaking part and Finnish-speaking part. And the surrounding Espoo is pretty much Finnish-speaking.

[luoto]

Integration is just what you make it. Of course it is important to remember that if you are living in a Swedish area that Finnish is also important, but you could get by with Swedish/English and learn Finnish afterwards. All depends if you will travel outside of the area and want to read Finnish resources.

Learning Swedish first may be easier for many English speakers but do not forget the importance ALSO of Finnish. Swedish is useful if you want to go to Sweden/Denmark and Norway though.

[enk]

I learned Swedish before I came here since UIUC didn't have Finnish.
I found it to be quite useful and a lot of my friends stem from the
days when I didn't know Finnish well enough to say squat in it. Strangely
enough, we usually talk in Finnish nowadays anyways and my spoken
Swedish has gone to hell. And Finns usually claim I'm a Finnish
Swede when I talk because of my accent.

It's got its pros and its cons.

-enk

[Hairi T.]

So that a foreign family could consider moving into that community, have the children attend a Swedish day care, and expect that the kids can meet their friends outside of day care. There are Swedish-speaking BARNDAGVÅRD I DAGHEM (päiväkodit) in Helsinki and SPRÅKBAD (language bath) services is available for children to learn Swedish better. I work with Finnish speakers (and some foreigners and two Swedish speakers), and I assumed that a family moving here should put the kids into Finnish-speaking day care, so as to integrate them. Now I think perhaps a Swedish-speaking day care would have served just as well for getting the kids integrated into a community. There's the difficulty that the kids, on going to the Leikkipuisto, will be out of communication with foreign children. But that's a problem the whole Swedish-speaking community faces, and they handle it by having Swedish-speaking events. Perhaps the best advice goes like this: if your children are 2 years old, and you know you're going to stay in Finland, put them in a finnish-speaking language bath, but if your children are 5 years old and you have to get them ready for school, but still have time to try to integrate them, try a Swedish-speaking language bath.

[Hairi T.]

"out of communication with (remove) -foreign- (add) Finnish-speaking children."

[EP]

after you made your daughter learn Finnish but, then, why all the pain?

That is just it: Children learn languages naturally, they don´t feel the pain adults do. They don´t have to sit and study grammatical cases, they just ape their surroundings. For example refugee children usually learn in two-three months, and later act as interpreters for their parents who are way behind their children in learning.

[Idefix]

Pietarsaari is even more Swedish speaking than Kokkola, you can do fine only speaking Swedish unless you have a job where you are required to speak both languages. The job situation in the town sucks though.

Here is a map with the swedish speaking areas marked in gray:
http://www.nykarlebyvyer.nu/sidor/TEXTE ... enfinl.htm

[Richard]

Here is a map with the swedish speaking areas marked in gray:
http://www.nykarlebyvyer.nu/sidor/TEXTE ... enfinl.htm

It shows the whole capital area as swedish speaking which seems a little questionable

[Idefix]

It shows the whole capital area as swedish speaking which seems a little questionable

I am sure it depends, more and less in different sections of the area. Just as Kokkola (Karleby) is more Finnish speaking than Pietarsaari (Jakobstad).

[Matula]

Here is a map with the swedish speaking areas marked in gray:
http://www.nykarlebyvyer.nu/sidor/TEXTE ... enfinl.htm

It shows the whole capital area as swedish speaking which seems a little questionable

The capital area is bilingual. Rest of Uusimaa's coast is Swedish speaking. At least that was the situation in the 1950'ies.

You can still see that billingualism in Helsinki if you go to Stockmann or Munkkiniemi area. Old ladies who refuse to speak any Finnish, and naturally demand better service.

Most middle aged, and younger Swedish-speakers switch automatically to Finnish when they interact with someone they don't know.