My husband an I are planning to move to Finland next summer with out 3 year old daughter. I am hoping t get in to university to do an undergraduate course, but I don't know how we can manage it financialy.
I know that there are no tuition fees which is great, however I was wondering if there was any student support that I may be entitled to.
I am a British citizen but my husband is Hungarian and I want to know if there are any working restrictions on citizens from new EU countries or is it more relaxed for him because he is married to someone British. He is a qualified teacher. Does anyone know about the employment oppertunities for non-finnish speaking kindergarten or primary school teachers in Oulu? he would be wlling to do any kind of work to start with eg. bar work, however without geting any student support myself this wouldnt be enough to support a family. I would also like to know about kindergartens. In Britain there are free part time nursary places for all children aged 3 and over, is there anythingsimilar there?
It has been my dream for quite a long time now to move to Oulu and study, I would appreciate any advice or suggestions that may help us to realie our dream.
I need a solution to a complicated problem.
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Hank W.
- The Motorhead
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Well, yes, getting into the school is one thing. Getting work is another.
Then about the life support. Well, jobs aren't exactly popping in from the windows and doors. Oulu is, even with the big N and some hi-fi industry not a big city - there are opportunities, but finding one... As what comes to your hubby Hungary is these days as good as any old EU country, and being married to a Brit doesn't diminish his chances of finding work significantly either
For teaching qualifications, one needs to get them approved by the Ministry of Education - however for finding a job the part of "Speaking Finnish" gets quite important. And learning Finnish is about as easy as learning Hungarian - they claim that the languages are related, but so are Hindi and English. There are kindergarten/daycares, what they cost depends on the parents' income (much here is means-tested) but they also have rules and so forth about who is entitled to a place - that quagmire I can say is off my turf.
It seems you'd need to get some money saved to pursue your dream, enough to survive on for a semester atleast.
Then about the life support. Well, jobs aren't exactly popping in from the windows and doors. Oulu is, even with the big N and some hi-fi industry not a big city - there are opportunities, but finding one... As what comes to your hubby Hungary is these days as good as any old EU country, and being married to a Brit doesn't diminish his chances of finding work significantly either
For teaching qualifications, one needs to get them approved by the Ministry of Education - however for finding a job the part of "Speaking Finnish" gets quite important. And learning Finnish is about as easy as learning Hungarian - they claim that the languages are related, but so are Hindi and English. There are kindergarten/daycares, what they cost depends on the parents' income (much here is means-tested) but they also have rules and so forth about who is entitled to a place - that quagmire I can say is off my turf. It seems you'd need to get some money saved to pursue your dream, enough to survive on for a semester atleast.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
Thanks Hank.
I am Scottish my husband is Hungarian, we met in Denmark at an international college where about half of our classmates, and now best friends, were Finnish. I hate British politics and I dont want my daughter to go to school here. There is a course at Oulu Uni that I want to study and cant find a similar course anywhere else in Europe. I have 3 very good friends already studying the same course. Why wouldn't I want to mover to Finland.
I am Scottish my husband is Hungarian, we met in Denmark at an international college where about half of our classmates, and now best friends, were Finnish. I hate British politics and I dont want my daughter to go to school here. There is a course at Oulu Uni that I want to study and cant find a similar course anywhere else in Europe. I have 3 very good friends already studying the same course. Why wouldn't I want to mover to Finland.
What are your long term plans?jen wrote:Thanks Hank.
I am Scottish my husband is Hungarian, we met in Denmark at an international college where about half of our classmates, and now best friends, were Finnish. I hate British politics and I dont want my daughter to go to school here. There is a course at Oulu Uni that I want to study and cant find a similar course anywhere else in Europe. I have 3 very good friends already studying the same course. Why wouldn't I want to mover to Finland.
Kids in Finland start school at 7, speaking from personal experience of being schooled in multiple countries, this move could (IMHO) seriously screw around with your child's education - which I assume you would put ahead of your own education and your like / dislike of whatever politics a country has.
What Hank is trying to say is that even for Finnish speaking locals here, jobs are diffficult to come by.
The opportunities are there but very limited compared to where you are.
As Sinikala advises, Your kid's education needs to be considered.
If you move here now, you will need to choose between a Finnish/Swedish speaking daycare, or a Finnish/Swedish speaking Home-daycare(Päivakoti), or Private daycare. You need to consider the Fees for Private daycare and its availablity in oulu ( heard its like €600/- per month for English speaking one in Espoo, without Lunch etc + extra prices for trips etc - Compare that to the daycare of the above types is a maximmum of €200 depending on your income level).
With both of you not knowing the local language poses various issues to deal with the "Social System": From banks, utilities, Immigration, local/regional governing agencies etc(local politics), jobs, neighbors, friends circle etc.
Think carefully, weigh your alternatives, risks and oportunities and then take your decision.
The opportunities are there but very limited compared to where you are.
As Sinikala advises, Your kid's education needs to be considered.
If you move here now, you will need to choose between a Finnish/Swedish speaking daycare, or a Finnish/Swedish speaking Home-daycare(Päivakoti), or Private daycare. You need to consider the Fees for Private daycare and its availablity in oulu ( heard its like €600/- per month for English speaking one in Espoo, without Lunch etc + extra prices for trips etc - Compare that to the daycare of the above types is a maximmum of €200 depending on your income level).
With both of you not knowing the local language poses various issues to deal with the "Social System": From banks, utilities, Immigration, local/regional governing agencies etc(local politics), jobs, neighbors, friends circle etc.
Think carefully, weigh your alternatives, risks and oportunities and then take your decision.
well in my honest opinion i think that children are highly addaptable, whith my daughter being so young now i have no problem with her going to a finnish speaking daycare it is the best way for her to learn the language, i have every confidence in her abilities, she is 2 and a half and speaks 3 languages. one of the main reasons we plan to make this move is because we feel that finland would provide a much better environment and education for her, i am aware that schools starts at age 7, this is another reason we want to move there, here children start aged 4 or 5 which we feel is far to early. My husband is a primary teacher and i will also be studying education, and if we do decide to move away from finland in the future then we will both support her in her education. i also have to say that in my own experience, living and going to school in diffferent countries can actually be benificial to children.
My daughter is the most important person in my life and in my husbands, neither of us would do anything to harm her or upset her. we have been concidering this move for many years and have thought long and hard wither it really would be the best thing for each of us individualy and we believe that it is.
when i posted on this i was looking for advice on the logistics of moving to finland, not criticism of my parenting.
My daughter is the most important person in my life and in my husbands, neither of us would do anything to harm her or upset her. we have been concidering this move for many years and have thought long and hard wither it really would be the best thing for each of us individualy and we believe that it is.
when i posted on this i was looking for advice on the logistics of moving to finland, not criticism of my parenting.
If we were only to consider the education of our child we would probably still try to moveto finland. Having studied previosly at an international teacher training college and gaained an understanding of many different school systems in europe and the wider world, the finnish system is closest to our own views of education and we believe would offer her the best possible start. there is research that supports this such as the PISA studies however i do not fully agree with evaluating school systems in that way.
Don't take it to heart
Jen - there are a lot of posts on this forum asking the same thing.
"I want to move to Finland - how do I get a job"
Don't get too upset when the regulars are offhand - or even snarky.
They answer these type of posts every day of the year, and it must get a little dreary. Most of the peeps that lurk here are good gentle souls - who will give you straight advice. They just won't cover it in sugar.
I am from Scotland - and left partly because of the UK politics...
So...childcare; yes - after 4 months wait. Also expect to pay a small part yourself.
Job...have a plan...get something sorted in advance....open your own company...whatever. I spent 2 years here before I got the first real job.
Schools, business & colleges - all need english speakers from time to time. Native English Speakers. Forget most qualifications obtained outside Finland.
Oh and bring a LHD car. Own it for 12 months in UK first - and sell it after 24 months here. Megabucks.
Good luck
"I want to move to Finland - how do I get a job"
Don't get too upset when the regulars are offhand - or even snarky.
They answer these type of posts every day of the year, and it must get a little dreary. Most of the peeps that lurk here are good gentle souls - who will give you straight advice. They just won't cover it in sugar.
I am from Scotland - and left partly because of the UK politics...
So...childcare; yes - after 4 months wait. Also expect to pay a small part yourself.
Job...have a plan...get something sorted in advance....open your own company...whatever. I spent 2 years here before I got the first real job.
Schools, business & colleges - all need english speakers from time to time. Native English Speakers. Forget most qualifications obtained outside Finland.
Oh and bring a LHD car. Own it for 12 months in UK first - and sell it after 24 months here. Megabucks.
Good luck
Replying to your last sentence first. Nobody criticised your parenting, we (RaamV and I) pointed out that it could have repercussions (I pointed out negative effect on your child's education). If you wish to take it personally that's up to you.jen wrote:well in my honest opinion i think that children are highly addaptable, whith my daughter being so young now i have no problem with her going to a finnish speaking daycare it is the best way for her to learn the language, i have every confidence in her abilities, she is 2 and a half and speaks 3 languages. one of the main reasons we plan to make this move is because we feel that finland would provide a much better environment and education for her, i am aware that schools starts at age 7, this is another reason we want to move there, here children start aged 4 or 5 which we feel is far to early. My husband is a primary teacher and i will also be studying education, and if we do decide to move away from finland in the future then we will both support her in her education. i also have to say that in my own experience, living and going to school in diffferent countries can actually be benificial to children.
My daughter is the most important person in my life and in my husbands, neither of us would do anything to harm her or upset her. we have been concidering this move for many years and have thought long and hard wither it really would be the best thing for each of us individualy and we believe that it is.
when i posted on this i was looking for advice on the logistics of moving to finland, not criticism of my parenting.
That you will support your child in her education and that she is the most important thing in your life are taken for granted, what sort of parent would you be if it were otherwise?
However, you will be non-native speakers and unless you can pay for private English education your child may have to go to a Finnish state school. Likelyhood is she would quickly be ahead of you in the language stakes if you were to remain here, your supporting her education will be lip service.
As neither of you is Finnish there is a strong possibility that you may move on later. Interesting that you say "in my own experience, living and going to school in diffferent countries can actually be benificial to children" do you have first hand experience? As in you were schooled abroad? Or is it an opinion?
Whether you like or dislike the school starting age is irrelevant. There will be standards to be reached. It's your child, not you, who may have to go through intensive tuition to bring her up to the right level if you move countries again, or worse still she may simply be left to struggle.
Aside from discontinuity of education, the absence of a native speaker in the family, if you move elsewhere there is also the issue of the child missing out on the opportunity to put down roots, to feel she belongs to a place, the disturbance of friendships.... the list is as long as my arm.
As you point out, children are highly adaptable. A child may turn out fine, perhaps even benefit from a cosmopolitan upbringing, other parents on here may tell you how wonderfully their children have "coped" - IMNSHO children should not have to cope.
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interleukin
- Posts: 2361
- Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:46 pm
- Location: Stockholm
I have to support the original poster here, raising a child in different countries and languages is just as likely to be a huge asset to the child as a problem. I speak from experience, having been raised in four different countries (4 different languages) with my parents only being natives in one of them.
A child will learn languages (sometimes perfection in the mother tongue is delayed but in time the child will sort it all out and be fluent in more than one language). A child will see the world and experience things it may only appreciate as an adult. Of course a child can have problems as well, such as temporarily adjusting to a new situation, but that is not really anything a child living on the same street all their lives can escape either.
I think I turned out pretty well despite all my travels as a kid, so this alone should not be a reason not to move around. Of course it is extremely important to try to make the kid feel safe and comfortable with themselves despite all this moving around. This is where a warm and loving set of parents come into the picture. A home is not only a physical place, but also a safe haven where you know you can go for comfort. The parents also have to be aware of how much work they are going to have to put in to make things go smoothly for the kid while adjusting to a new life.
Dont flame me please for this post. I have no children so I dont know what it is like to raise them, I only speak from my own experience.
/eeinarsdottir
A child will learn languages (sometimes perfection in the mother tongue is delayed but in time the child will sort it all out and be fluent in more than one language). A child will see the world and experience things it may only appreciate as an adult. Of course a child can have problems as well, such as temporarily adjusting to a new situation, but that is not really anything a child living on the same street all their lives can escape either.
I think I turned out pretty well despite all my travels as a kid, so this alone should not be a reason not to move around. Of course it is extremely important to try to make the kid feel safe and comfortable with themselves despite all this moving around. This is where a warm and loving set of parents come into the picture. A home is not only a physical place, but also a safe haven where you know you can go for comfort. The parents also have to be aware of how much work they are going to have to put in to make things go smoothly for the kid while adjusting to a new life.
Dont flame me please for this post. I have no children so I dont know what it is like to raise them, I only speak from my own experience.
/eeinarsdottir
Penguin, Thankyou for the info, nice to meet a fellow Scot here.
Eerinarsdottir, Thankyou for the support.
Sinikala, Sorry for being snappy. We often recieve criticism from or families on our alternative approach to parenting and have become a bit defensive. I am aware that our daughter will learn Finnish much faster than either of us, my husband will also probably pick it up faster than me because of the similarities between Hungarian and Finnish. Although we will not be able to support her in learning Finnish we wil be able to suport her learning in all other subject which will make the transition between school systems, if we move away from Finland, much smoother. I completely agree that children should not have to cope, i truly believe though that this move will allow her to flourish.
Hank, there are advantages and disadvantages to both Finnish schools and English speaking schools, there is a good few years until we need to make that decision though and we will investigate the individual schools when we move to Oulu. Maybe by then my husband will be teaching in one of the English speaking schools.
Eerinarsdottir, Thankyou for the support.
Sinikala, Sorry for being snappy. We often recieve criticism from or families on our alternative approach to parenting and have become a bit defensive. I am aware that our daughter will learn Finnish much faster than either of us, my husband will also probably pick it up faster than me because of the similarities between Hungarian and Finnish. Although we will not be able to support her in learning Finnish we wil be able to suport her learning in all other subject which will make the transition between school systems, if we move away from Finland, much smoother. I completely agree that children should not have to cope, i truly believe though that this move will allow her to flourish.
Hank, there are advantages and disadvantages to both Finnish schools and English speaking schools, there is a good few years until we need to make that decision though and we will investigate the individual schools when we move to Oulu. Maybe by then my husband will be teaching in one of the English speaking schools.
Jo estet kivanok.
Don't expect Hungarian to help you much learning Finnish. Some of the grammar is vaguely similar but you will be hard pushed to find any common lexis. But chances are, if you already speak several languages then you will find it easier to learn one more.
As for teaching in Oulu.... the only option would be Oulu international school, which is an IB school. It is a Finnish state school but English is the main language of teaching. A teacher from that school used to post on here regularly, but he recently moved back to the UK. You might want to search out some of his posts.... (look for author: watsonwatson) they will give you one version of life in Oulu
Another poster from this board who lived in Oulu was Caroline. She wrote a book about her experience up there. You can buy it from an online publisher, search through her posts if you are interested. She recently moved back to USA, that will give you another version of ex-pat life in Oulu
(BTW the PISA study was conducted on kids 15 yrs of age. Finland had the best average of all the countries tested. It did not score well in "High Achievers" (ie there were almost no Finnish kids in the high scores). One explanation for Finland's rating is the orthographic simplicity of the language which results in very high literacy rates (same in Hungary) and children performing better in maths since they learn to read and write quicker than kids learning in more complex languages (such as English, French and Danish). Research by Mikael Aho et al in Jyvaskyla university supports this and also suggested that the age of starting school (eg 5 versus 7 yrs of age) has no impact on fluency and accuracy in mother tongue literacy rates. )
Don't expect an easy-ride. And be ready to hear a 100,000 people say "told you so" when you have to accept defeat.
Don't expect Hungarian to help you much learning Finnish. Some of the grammar is vaguely similar but you will be hard pushed to find any common lexis. But chances are, if you already speak several languages then you will find it easier to learn one more.
As for teaching in Oulu.... the only option would be Oulu international school, which is an IB school. It is a Finnish state school but English is the main language of teaching. A teacher from that school used to post on here regularly, but he recently moved back to the UK. You might want to search out some of his posts.... (look for author: watsonwatson) they will give you one version of life in Oulu
Another poster from this board who lived in Oulu was Caroline. She wrote a book about her experience up there. You can buy it from an online publisher, search through her posts if you are interested. She recently moved back to USA, that will give you another version of ex-pat life in Oulu
(BTW the PISA study was conducted on kids 15 yrs of age. Finland had the best average of all the countries tested. It did not score well in "High Achievers" (ie there were almost no Finnish kids in the high scores). One explanation for Finland's rating is the orthographic simplicity of the language which results in very high literacy rates (same in Hungary) and children performing better in maths since they learn to read and write quicker than kids learning in more complex languages (such as English, French and Danish). Research by Mikael Aho et al in Jyvaskyla university supports this and also suggested that the age of starting school (eg 5 versus 7 yrs of age) has no impact on fluency and accuracy in mother tongue literacy rates. )
Don't expect an easy-ride. And be ready to hear a 100,000 people say "told you so" when you have to accept defeat.