Desperate plea-EU Citizen denied residence card

[salfordlassie]

I've been reading the Finland Forum for the past year or so in preparation for my move to Vantaa. I'm an EU citizen, and to my understanding, I could obtain a residence card simply by visiting the Immigration Police and declaring my intent to find work. I am also engaged to a Finnish citizen, by the way.

However, when I visited the police today (I arrived in Finland last night), I was told that I could stay here and look for work for three months, and if I found none, I'd have to leave. My fiance and I plan to be married in a few months, and he said that if it would make matters easier, we could marry sooner. However, the representative said we'd have to live together first for two years (?)

I arrived here with enough money to support myself for over one year, and I have no intent to drain the system or leach off of Kela. Please, can anyone offer any advice or help? From what I've read here, folks have arrived with far less and have been given the residence card without a problem.

[Hank W.]

Yes well you answered their questions wrong. Basically one needs an "excuse to stay". "Looking for work" is not an excuse, "working" is. "Being engaged" is not an excuse, "being married" is. So next time you fill in the paper have an excuse that is in their book

[sinikettu]

I've been reading the Finland Forum for the past year or so in preparation for my move to Vantaa. I'm an EU citizen and I arrived here with enough money to support myself for over one year,.

This is odd..especially if you are in Vantaa because I have always found the staff at the police immigration section at Vantaa police HQ (Tikkurila) very co-oprative/helfull even friendly..but I suppose..it could be down..
1: New Instructions.
2: An Individual person/member of staff.
I have heard of them saying such things when one of Hanks drinking mates from Birmingham arrived broke and wanted instant access to kela.
But...you..."arrived here with enough money to support myself"

Sounds like a case for Daryl to get his teeth into..

[sinikettu]

Duplicate post removed..

[Hank W.]

Yes, but the proof of money has to be a proof of the money. It might also help to get to the Maistraatti to get "into the process" of registering, you need to get the marriage paperwork sorted out anyways.

[littlefrank]

'However, when I visited the police today (I arrived in Finland last night), I was told that I could stay here'

This is strange I always thought if you had enough money to support yourself..., however I didn't tell anyone official I was here, it was only when my ex got pregnant that I decided to, and then I got a cleaning job and they decided I could support myself. which was bizarre because the wages were crap. Then of course once our daughter was born...

Of course if you could make a living 'painting matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs'.

Actually just thought, the person you spoke to has got it wrong, you're allowed to claim benefits (if you have right forms from your EEC country of origin) for three months.

[daryl]

I've been reading the Finland Forum for the past year or so in preparation for my move to Vantaa. I'm an EU citizen, and to my understanding, I could obtain a residence card simply by visiting the Immigration Police and declaring my intent to find work. I am also engaged to a Finnish citizen, by the way.

However, when I visited the police today (I arrived in Finland last night), I was told that I could stay here and look for work for three months, and if I found none, I'd have to leave. My fiance and I plan to be married in a few months, and he said that if it would make matters easier, we could marry sooner. However, the representative said we'd have to live together first for two years (?)

I arrived here with enough money to support myself for over one year, and I have no intent to drain the system or leach off of Kela. Please, can anyone offer any advice or help? From what I've read here, folks have arrived with far less and have been given the residence card without a problem.

My very earliest impressions on this situation are as follows:

1. You cannot be expelled from Finland unless you pose a serious and ongoing threat to public order or public safety. This is an extremely high threshold (much higher than the threshold for deporting a third-country national with a permanent residence permit). There is much more to being expelled than mere posturing by police officers and advice that you "have to leave". It's a question of enforceability.

2. The notion of "two years of cohabitation" governs applications for residence permits filed by third-country nationals after arriving in Finland. This is also at best only a rule of thumb, and does not qualify Finland's obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights. The key idea here is unwarranted and unlawful interference in family life, and this always involves an in-depth examination of the circumstances of all of the putative family members. If you are living together and, for example, there is something that prevents your Finnish fiancé from leaving Finland (e.g. other family ties), then Finland becomes the presumed country of residence for your family as a whole as a direct consequence of international human rights law (which trumps the Aliens Act). These are complex questions on which local police stations have no competence in any sense of the word.

3. If push comes to shove, ignore "registration" and apply for a residence permit. Let the Directorate of Immigration sort this out. It will take them about two years, most of which will be spent trying to work out just why you can't simply register the right to remain.

daryl

[sinikettu]

As I said above I am surprised..Vantaa/Tikkurila are no usualy so idiotic..
Perhaps they need a reminder the both Salford and Vantaa are in the EU.

Call the UK Embassy and ask if they can help.
visitors to other sections of the Embassy should also make an appointment at least 24 hours in advance. To do this please call +358 (0)9 2286 5100. Please bring your passport and/or ID card with you when you come.

But as Daryl says..they cannot tell you to leave..
You do not really need to even tell them you are here..It is just easier in the long run, if you intend to make Finland your home, to clear up this sort of mess asap after arrival.

[Hank W.]

Not much problem dealing with bureaucracy, and the outcome is easy to figure out if you read the list:

# marriage certificate
# information on the principal terms of employment provided by the employer
# account of the pursuit of a trade
# certificate of study
# account of the applicant’s means of support

a) Yes, I had "something on the list"
b) No, I did not have "something on the list"

Easy as that.

[salfordlassie]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses and great advice; I'll post again soon with the (hopefully) successful results.

[Hank W.]

Try tackling the maistraatti, the police are actually a bit more jovial usualy then. And the "proof of the means of support" a statement of a Finnish bank also does magic, though if you get married before that then thats more magical of a paper.

[mumboman]

If you have the money this shouldn't be an issue, I had an athlete come over to Finland to train, and all he showed was he had the money to live, Residence permit approved in 2-3 weeks. and he was non EU by the way.

[Rosamunda]

Can I ask a (dumb) question.... why would you need a residence card anyway? I assume you have a GB (ie European) passport? What is there to stop you just living here without one, until you find a job or want to buy a house, vote or something similar?

(Daryl, don't bust a gut on this one, I´m just playing the devil's advocate. If, as you say, they cannot expel her, then can we deduce that passport is, anyway, enough?)

[littlefrank]

The right of residence for more than six months remains subject to certain conditions. Applicants must:

either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
or **have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;**
or be following vocational training as a student;
or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories.


http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33152.htm

[voyechando]

well, it seems that being european union citizen is not anymore what it used to be anyways, you have to feel lucky that still they can't deport you, I'm standing by to see more changes coming..
I wonder what the rumanians & bulgarians were celebrating.