If you use search for "outi"..you will find two threads giving the old history.
There was one statement that said if she ever stepped foot in the USA in an attempt to even see her kids she would go to jail.
Well she did and she went to jail.
http://virtual.finland.fi/stt/showartic ... up=General
Outi...jailed in US over custody battle
Outi...jailed in US over custody battle
People do not become more irritable as they grow old - they simply stop making the effort to avoid annoying others.
I don't think you are going to be blasted for anything. Nor do I think she had "friends in high places" or it was a gender issue. She merely took full advantage of a totally typical (and definitely not just "Finnish") situation in which the inability of the police and judiciary (for perfectly normal legal reasons) to give full and frank information on the case allowed the tabloids the wiggle-room to stir up a "my citizen right or wrong" witch-hunt against the dirty rotten scoundrel foreigner of a father, before they all had to climb down and apologise when the evidence eventually came out.enk wrote:I'm sure I'm going to be blasted to h*ll and high water for it,
but good, it's about time.
Guess she doesn't have as many friends in high places in the
USA as she does here.
Any father pulled the same stunt and he would have been thrown
in jail for it.
-enk
It was no different from those ghastly "get my son/daughter home" stories all over the Western media whenever some kid stuffs half a kilo of smack up their ass and tries it on with the customs people in Bangkok or Phnom Penh. THEY are never guilty either, nor should they be banged up in some stinking Thai jail.
Foreigners are ALWAYS shifty sods and your own people are saints - until proven otherwise. It's a global rule.
Actually she did, but I can't remember (or find the info for it on the net)otyikondo wrote:I don't think you are going to be blasted for anything. Nor do I think she had "friends in high places" or it was a gender issue.
who it was, her godfather or uncle or someone is some bigshot in
Finnish politics. Anyone with brain that still functions remember who
that person is?
And you're right, it's probably not a gender issue, just for some reason
Finnish fathers don't seem to feel much of a need to kidnap their
children from their home countries. Wonder why that is...
-enk
Oh, no... I don't think so... This forum is far from being populated with nationalistic finns, or with women full of contempt against all fathers.enk wrote:I'm sure I'm going to be blasted to hell
Additionaly, I hope that most of the Finns rather agree that the law is the law, so if the (finnish) woman tried to escape her sentence, by trying to enter USA to see her kids, then she has obviously commited a crime and deserves a punishment for it.
I don't know all the details of this Outi-case, but I remember she was really using the tabloids to make pressure on her former husband, and to get support from Finland (first, get support from the people; then, expect a few demagogs to help you). We had quite a similar case in France, some months ago... Of course, many French people are still in favor of the woman, even if she has been lying and extremely arrogant towards Canada, because a characteristic of French people is that many of them don't believe that justice is close of being fair, and they think that they know the laws and what has happened, better than any judge
/Paul
L'équivalent francais de ce forum: http://www.salutfinlande.net/
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/1101978170063
Gives a fairly succinct summary of what went down. The part about the police taciturnity I referred to has been repeated time and again (most recently in the case of the Kajaani pizzeria massacre), as the media allow themselves to take statements from anyone willing to shout above the crowd. In the Koski case she shouted louder than he did and was an easier interviewee, while in the case of the Kajaani fracas, the initial response was to get holier-than-thou about "Finnish racism" based on only one side of the story.
As for Outi Koski's "connections", the only ones I can recall are the author Eeva Kilpi and Koski's mother, who was allegedly a former social worker who was able to hamper the return of the boys by exerting influence on the agency that was to carry it out. Besides... "people in high places", who needs them when you have two tabloid rags fighting your corner and a population that is goaded into sticking up for "the little guy/girl" against foreign intervention?
But you have piqued my curiosity. I'll look and ask.
Gives a fairly succinct summary of what went down. The part about the police taciturnity I referred to has been repeated time and again (most recently in the case of the Kajaani pizzeria massacre), as the media allow themselves to take statements from anyone willing to shout above the crowd. In the Koski case she shouted louder than he did and was an easier interviewee, while in the case of the Kajaani fracas, the initial response was to get holier-than-thou about "Finnish racism" based on only one side of the story.
As for Outi Koski's "connections", the only ones I can recall are the author Eeva Kilpi and Koski's mother, who was allegedly a former social worker who was able to hamper the return of the boys by exerting influence on the agency that was to carry it out. Besides... "people in high places", who needs them when you have two tabloid rags fighting your corner and a population that is goaded into sticking up for "the little guy/girl" against foreign intervention?
But you have piqued my curiosity. I'll look and ask.
Speaking of people with friends in high places, the end of this
interview brings with it good news from another high-profile case:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4qKmtV4Bm34
-enk
interview brings with it good news from another high-profile case:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4qKmtV4Bm34
-enk
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littlefrank
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:51 am
- Location: eläkeläinenmäki
'Especially if I think how hard this might be for the boys and at the end, that matters'
I agree, even after all the !"#¤% that my ex threw at me I still talk to my ex 'nicely' in front of Eili and go to family counselling with her to try to work things out about Eili's feelings/future etc. I don't know about this couple, but it does seem that the kids are really suffering and maybe a month in jail might make the mother re-think her position, but if I was the father, I think I'd let the mother stew in jail for a few days and then go and try to talk to her to see if I could get her to see reason.
I agree, even after all the !"#¤% that my ex threw at me I still talk to my ex 'nicely' in front of Eili and go to family counselling with her to try to work things out about Eili's feelings/future etc. I don't know about this couple, but it does seem that the kids are really suffering and maybe a month in jail might make the mother re-think her position, but if I was the father, I think I'd let the mother stew in jail for a few days and then go and try to talk to her to see if I could get her to see reason.
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, 1949
- Popular Mechanics, 1949
Ahhhh.. now I found who you meant. It was alleged that Markku Koski (Kepu) was her maternal (??? how's that possible?) uncle, and was at the time Deputy Speaker of Parliament. When he spoke out on her behalf and complained about the Supreme Court ruling (first time around) he got roundly biffed by lawmakers and sane members of the public alike.
Eduskunnan ensimmäinen varapuhemies Markku Koski suunnittelee tiedotustilaisuuden järjestämistä sukulaispoikiensa puolesta. "Oikeutta täytyy löytyä. Ihmettelen, mistä tulee tällainen linja, että poikien mielipidettä ei oteta huomioon, vaikka he ovat riittävän vanhoja ja kypsiä" Koski sanoo.
Hyvä herra Koski, entäpä jos poikien mielipidettä kuunneltaisiin välillä siellä toisella kentällä, missä oikeusprosessi olikin jo käynnissä ennen kuin Outi Koski otti oikeuden omiin käsiinsä? Vai onko tässä valtavassa ja äärimmäisen yksipuolisessa julkisuusvyörytyskampanjassa takana se että onkin pelko siitä että tuo mielipide on yhtä häilyvä ja paikkasidonnainen kuin Outi Kosken ylivoimaisuus lasten huoltajana?
I'm not sure he was quite as influential a figure as some people (including Koski himself - and perhaps John Rogers, see below) might like to think. He's definitely not as well-known as his snowboarding namesake...
Certainly his name-recognition wasn't enough to avoid his being described as "Johannes Koski" on at least one blog, but that's blogs for you, and of course even for a Finn I guess Koski and KoskiNEN (Johannes Koskinen was Minister of Justice at the time and WAS a significant player in all this) are difficult to tell apart when one is typing with frenzied zeal.
There's another caveat in this... it should be remembered that whilst much of the time people were led by the nose by Outi Koski's side of the whole sad and sordid story because she was a willing interview subject and gave juicy quotes (and pandered to a "support the Finn against the big bad foreigner" populist mood), the most obvious and quoted reference to Markku Koski's alleged involvement comes from John Rogers' own statements to the press back home...
Don't let us forget that Rogers is not much more reliable as an objective witness than his ex-wife. He has his own quite normal axes to grind. It was only natural for Rogers to accentuate the importance of Markku Koski as it sowed a useful seed of doubt that there was a high-level conspiracy in play to pervert the course of justice. Still, the claim in one U.S. paper that Markku Koski was a potential presidential candidate was rather OTT... Outside Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, he's not really, well... anybody.
Besides, as a farmer, and "levyseppä-hitsaaja (1970), kunnallispolitiikan approbatur (1987), valtio-opin approbatur (2001)", his grasp of complex legal matters might just have been a little on the thin side.
And do you REALLY think that the SDP rank and file, who delight in "Kepu pettää aina", would have let him get away with a stunt like that? Some bright spark looking for advancement would have had him served up for lunch, just to score points.
But ultimately I have to feel a tiny bit sorry for Markku Koski. Not sure WHY, exactly, as he's a pretty unappealing politician, but imagine yourself in a similar bind: family member appeals to you for help in an awkward case because she knows - or thinks she knows - you've got a bit of clout. You have a hard time saying "no" when blood is thicker than water, especially if you've always quite liked your niece and her kids, and you were never quite sure about that foreign husband of hers who came for the wedding in Takahikiö but couldn't dance a decent waltz and didn't speak a word of Finnish and was... well, not one of us... etc, etc.
What would YOU do?
Eduskunnan ensimmäinen varapuhemies Markku Koski suunnittelee tiedotustilaisuuden järjestämistä sukulaispoikiensa puolesta. "Oikeutta täytyy löytyä. Ihmettelen, mistä tulee tällainen linja, että poikien mielipidettä ei oteta huomioon, vaikka he ovat riittävän vanhoja ja kypsiä" Koski sanoo.
Hyvä herra Koski, entäpä jos poikien mielipidettä kuunneltaisiin välillä siellä toisella kentällä, missä oikeusprosessi olikin jo käynnissä ennen kuin Outi Koski otti oikeuden omiin käsiinsä? Vai onko tässä valtavassa ja äärimmäisen yksipuolisessa julkisuusvyörytyskampanjassa takana se että onkin pelko siitä että tuo mielipide on yhtä häilyvä ja paikkasidonnainen kuin Outi Kosken ylivoimaisuus lasten huoltajana?
I'm not sure he was quite as influential a figure as some people (including Koski himself - and perhaps John Rogers, see below) might like to think. He's definitely not as well-known as his snowboarding namesake...
Certainly his name-recognition wasn't enough to avoid his being described as "Johannes Koski" on at least one blog, but that's blogs for you, and of course even for a Finn I guess Koski and KoskiNEN (Johannes Koskinen was Minister of Justice at the time and WAS a significant player in all this) are difficult to tell apart when one is typing with frenzied zeal.
There's another caveat in this... it should be remembered that whilst much of the time people were led by the nose by Outi Koski's side of the whole sad and sordid story because she was a willing interview subject and gave juicy quotes (and pandered to a "support the Finn against the big bad foreigner" populist mood), the most obvious and quoted reference to Markku Koski's alleged involvement comes from John Rogers' own statements to the press back home...
Don't let us forget that Rogers is not much more reliable as an objective witness than his ex-wife. He has his own quite normal axes to grind. It was only natural for Rogers to accentuate the importance of Markku Koski as it sowed a useful seed of doubt that there was a high-level conspiracy in play to pervert the course of justice. Still, the claim in one U.S. paper that Markku Koski was a potential presidential candidate was rather OTT... Outside Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, he's not really, well... anybody.
Besides, as a farmer, and "levyseppä-hitsaaja (1970), kunnallispolitiikan approbatur (1987), valtio-opin approbatur (2001)", his grasp of complex legal matters might just have been a little on the thin side.
And do you REALLY think that the SDP rank and file, who delight in "Kepu pettää aina", would have let him get away with a stunt like that? Some bright spark looking for advancement would have had him served up for lunch, just to score points.
But ultimately I have to feel a tiny bit sorry for Markku Koski. Not sure WHY, exactly, as he's a pretty unappealing politician, but imagine yourself in a similar bind: family member appeals to you for help in an awkward case because she knows - or thinks she knows - you've got a bit of clout. You have a hard time saying "no" when blood is thicker than water, especially if you've always quite liked your niece and her kids, and you were never quite sure about that foreign husband of hers who came for the wedding in Takahikiö but couldn't dance a decent waltz and didn't speak a word of Finnish and was... well, not one of us... etc, etc.
What would YOU do?
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littlefrank
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:51 am
- Location: eläkeläinenmäki
Penelope is somewhere where the sun is shinning, and it is +C something nice and warm.
She knows Outi and her boys were at school with Outi's boys, one of them was very close friend and stayed with Penelope's sons over-night a few times, and apparently there is still contact via MSN ...He wants to come back to Finland to see his old mates...but he does not say he wants to stay here..
I wonder if this comment to me from Penelope is now just a dream as Outi seems to have agrovated the situation with her visit to USA, so I dont think their father will be willing to risk it.
It would be nice if they could come over this summer and meet up with the old gang!!!!
But I would ask the ladies/mothers who use this BB.
Put yourself in Outi's shoes..what would you have done?
She knows Outi and her boys were at school with Outi's boys, one of them was very close friend and stayed with Penelope's sons over-night a few times, and apparently there is still contact via MSN ...He wants to come back to Finland to see his old mates...but he does not say he wants to stay here..
I wonder if this comment to me from Penelope is now just a dream as Outi seems to have agrovated the situation with her visit to USA, so I dont think their father will be willing to risk it.
It would be nice if they could come over this summer and meet up with the old gang!!!!
But I would ask the ladies/mothers who use this BB.
Put yourself in Outi's shoes..what would you have done?
People do not become more irritable as they grow old - they simply stop making the effort to avoid annoying others.
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littlefrank
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:51 am
- Location: eläkeläinenmäki
'But I would ask the ladies/mothers who use this BB.
Put yourself in Outi's shoes..what would you have done?'
I think it is a 'parent' issue, one that concerns either gender.
'He wants to come back to Finland to see his old mates...but he does not say he wants to stay here.. '
Not surprising with all the publicity if he wouldn't want to stay here, poor kid would have everyone staring/talking about him.
Put yourself in Outi's shoes..what would you have done?'
I think it is a 'parent' issue, one that concerns either gender.
'He wants to come back to Finland to see his old mates...but he does not say he wants to stay here.. '
Not surprising with all the publicity if he wouldn't want to stay here, poor kid would have everyone staring/talking about him.
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, 1949
- Popular Mechanics, 1949
Yes Frank...I remember the anguish that you went through ..But that because you knew and feared...littlefrank wrote:'But I would ask the ladies/mothers who use this BB.
Put yourself in Outi's shoes..what would you have done?'
I think it is a 'parent' issue, one that concerns either gender.
.
.. that in 9 cases out of 10.. "Mothers get the better sympathy from both press and law"..
You kept your cool and also access to your daughter.
My question (OK for fathers also) is what did Outi do wrong what should she have done differently?
People do not become more irritable as they grow old - they simply stop making the effort to avoid annoying others.
