advise needed for buying a piano

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:32 pm

Hi, I have been thinking of buying a piano for a while just for my own sickness, would like to have one instrument at home.

Not willing to pay for a new one which normally costs around 3000e, a second hand will do. Went to check from local second hand store, there are some options, but the seller tried so hard to sell and literally every and each of them is the best ?!

could anyone give some hints what should I consider when buying a second hand one. brand, manufacturing year, what else.

Thanks.

**Sponsor:**

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:46 pm

Piano. n. A parlor utensil for subduing the impenitent visitor. It is operated by depressing the keys of the machine and the spirits of the audience. --Ambrose Bierce / The Devil's Dictionary

Where are you situated...? I know nothing much about pianos, but was thinking that knowing your location might help people give you advice... and
I guess that what people would recommend you depends on what exactly you'd wish to play on the thing...

IIRC some music shops also rent pianos for a monthly fee.

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:03 pm

hi, sammy, that was quick reply

I am located in Kotka. Want to have one with good condition and reasonable price (nice dream !

), Planning to have my daughter to learn to play later, meanwhile, for myself to push keyboard like 1.2.3.4.5.... less than 1000e or around. Not willing to buy too expensive ones because don't know how many years will be spent in Finland.

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:10 pm

ok, checkd pianopiiri.fi, there are so many models available, I mean second hand ones, all look good from outside, brand are hellas, fazer, pearl river... Hellas has couple of models with different price range, so what to choose, how to choose among all models ?

raumagal · Post by **raumagal** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:42 pm

I'm interested in this topic too!

We have to get a piano for our daughter (7 years). The school recommended a "traditional" one but other people have said an electric is better. Anyone have any experience or recommendations?

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:33 pm

Ema wrote:could anyone give some hints what should I consider when buying a second hand one. brand, manufacturing year, what else.

I'm no expert, but I'd suggest trying to find an old upright Schimmel for a try. My grandparents (now sadly deceased) used to have one (from ca. 1960s, I believe.) The feel of the keyboard and the mechanism was just fabulous compared to many other brands I've played.

Mattlill2000 · Post by **Mattlill2000** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:43 pm

electric is better

I've used an electric piano with my studio for years and they are great. My Yamaha was under 300 euros new and has all the features that midi can offer. My kids have used the educational suite to learn how to play songs with it and for most parents, the headphone jack is a blessed relief. The piano sound from the Yamaha is quite close to a real piano, especially with the feature that is touch sensitive, meaning the harder you press the key, the louder the sound is.
After saying all that, it still doesn't come close to a real acoustic piano in sound quality and if that is what you want then a "real" piano is for you. But if you want to play a church organ and then a sizzling rock organ or strings etc., its something to consider. For me its a secondary instrument.

oompah18 · Post by **oompah18** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:47 pm

Hi, I confess to being of no use to you for buying pianos, despite the fact I have been a music teacher for 20 years! I have lived in 5 countries in 2 continents & have used both pianos & "electric" pianos. I have to admit that the Yamaha Clavinova has coped the best with humidity, airconditioning, being thumped by my tots & played by professional pianists, & it also has varying degrees of touch sensivity. They might not look as pretty as a grand piano, but I have NEVER heard of a clavinova that has needed repair. I know I should say, buy a real piano every time, but the environment seems to have adverse affects sometimes!!!
Good luck,
Allie

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:08 am

Yes, I admit that electric piano is much more handy and easy to take care of, and I have given a good thoughts for that, but then eventually I decided for a real piano. Because the firmness of the keyboard is very different. I believe that if you can play a real piano, it is easy to adapt to electric piano. But if started with electric piano, it is hard to play a real piano later on. Because the finger intenseness is needed.(correct me if I am wrong).

so, any advises on buying a real piano. does the manufacturing year make a big difference? Help!!!!!!

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:00 pm

A Finnish piano (eg Fazer) will have a better resale value if you ever decide to resell it, but they are more expensive to buy.

Have you looked on huuto.net ?

One of my boys plays the guitar. His guitar teacher put us in touch with a family who was selling a good classical guitar a couple of years ago. Now he has out-grown that guitar and needs a full-size one. We have decided to buy a new one (as he enjoys the guitar so much) and the teacher has offered to come with us to choose one. So maybe you could find a piano teacher locally who could help you find a good value second hand piano.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:59 pm

Ema wrote:I believe that if you can play a real piano, it is easy to adapt to electric piano. But if started with electric piano, it is hard to play a real piano later on. Because the finger intenseness is needed.(correct me if I am wrong).

You are wrong...it all depends on practice..and now a days the electric pianos have come a long way to provide touch sensitivity as Matti and Allie says..

so, any advises on buying a real piano. does the manufacturing year make a big difference? Help!!!!!!

yes. The biggest problem you will have with a real Piano is to keep it in tune all the time.. very difficult in the environment you have here..
Warm and humid summers to Dry winters..also, Tuning is very expensive unless you are adept with a tuning fork and internal knowledge of a Piano ( Even an upright is difficult depending on what type of plate is used to generate the sound, as well as finding spare parts like springs, spare keys when one breaks etc etc). Another aspect of it is the make of wood. If the wood needs constant oiling, then you are looking at constant maintainence expenses apart from a real high initial price..

We have a 99 year old one from the US and it is only now being used by a would-be professional player who is 1 year old..The rest of the time, it is a nice antique furniture with bouts of inspiration from yours truly from time to time..

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:49 pm

hi all,

Thanks for the information. After spending the whole morning surfing on the internet of piano buying advises. I am getting scared

The internet basically giving advises that I definately need to have a professional toner to go check together me, which is a bit hard for me to find. And said that without checking the piano out in person, it is better not to buy. Seems like the only safe choice will be buying a new one 'Cause then I need to find professional piano moving company for that.

And totally agree on raamv about all the maintenance cost. Electric one seems to be the best choice in Finland. However, deep, deep down, I really would like to have a real piano. Knowing all the extra costs afterwards, I thought that buying a second hand one with fairly low cost, playing for couple of years, then give it away for free, it still worth it.

Has anyone had the experience of buying a second hand in finland? How did it go? Or, doesn't anyone know how do finns buy a piano, or they simply just throw couple of thousands for a new one.

I did check from huuto, but then again can't sure of the quality.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:01 pm

Ema wrote:And totally agree on raamv about all the maintenance cost. Electric one seems to be the best choice in Finland. However, deep, deep down, I really would like to have a real piano. Knowing all the extra costs afterwards, I thought that buying a second hand one with fairly low cost, playing for couple of years, then give it away for free, it still worth it.

Has anyone had the experience of buying a second hand in finland? How did it go? Or, doesn't anyone know how do finns buy a piano, or they simply just throw couple of thousands for a new one.

I did check from huuto, but then again can't sure of the quality.

I got a quote of around 100 Euros per hour for tuning a piano...

so I would advise against buying anything that require more maintainence than a car and more money for that tooo..So if you have the money ..go for it..
but then again Moving a Piano thread is completely another business ( do a search here and find the options that you have...

)
Even Transporting a Piano from place to place, you re gonna shell out extra €€ for each move.. Insuring it is another thing..
Think about all this and your felling deep down gets down deeper in €€..
Also, if you re in a rental place, make sure you dont leave scratches in the floor.. ( I use magic sliders to move the Piano and am looking for more and its available only on ebay US and that too occasionally as you need a 60mm diameter for pianos). You also need to make sure that if you wooden floors, you need padding and panels underneath to hold the Piano's weight if it is antique..and not damage the wooden floor..
I guess that you must have music blood to own a Piano here..
Otherwise, there are always the free music school Piano's to practice..

Check huuto:
http://www.huuto.net/fi/showlist.php3?t ... %25&lcat=Z
and
check this one out to get some of the itnernals :
http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=56785203
And reserve at least 100€ for transportation.

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:58 pm

raamv wrote:I guess that you must have music blood to own a Piano here..

Strange, never thought of it that way. My grandparents from both my mother’s side and my father’s side had a piano in their homes even before I was born. My parents bought us a piano when I was about 5.

Thinking about it, all my aunts and uncles (5 families altogether) have pianos in their homes and at least one of my cousins from each family has had piano playing lessons at some point. (One of those families tried to cope with a digital piano first but they later exchanged it for a real one. :D)

When visiting the homes of my schoolmates, it wasn’t uncommon to find a piano in them. My best friend during those years was quite a virtuoso playing one – composing songs on his own, playing complex pieces of music by ear and improvising a lot, instead of just acting as a human playback-o-matic for the sheet music of dead and decomposed composers (which is a real danger with the formal music instruction given by the Finnish “musiikkioppilaitos” system.)

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:37 am

Thinking about it, all my aunts and uncles (5 families altogether) have pianos in their homes and at least one of my cousins from each family has had piano playing lessons at some point. (One of those families tried to cope with a digital piano first but they later exchanged it for a real one.

)

Ok, I think the thing is that we are foreigners. Before we put our money to any sort of solid investment like even buying a coffee maker or bookshelf, we think first how do we sell it when we leave the country, how much money would we get back(at least in my case). For a piano, it is always always easy to buy, hard to sell. And it is so hard to move around. So the starting point is very different. I would say, if I am a finn, I wouldn't be thinking too much about it, let's face it, 3000e is not a big number with standard finn salary, for taking care of it, finns are so used to be charged on everything they get, so couple of hundreds once for a while is not that big deal either.

Ok, after all the information, my deep deep down feeling is shaking (thanks for raamv ) I start to think that electric piano is better idea. Definately gonna go to the shops to check out for the prices. Still hope if someone can give some experiences on this topic before I rush into it.

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