Salary for Programmers/IT Specialists

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:41 am

Hi all

This is a topic about which there have already been quite a few inquiries and/or discussions on this forum. However, there hasn't been anything concrete so far.

Quite simply : what would be the ideal GROSS salary for a professional programmer and/or an IT-Specialist?

I am aware that testers usually refer to a minimum of 2500 euros per month. Which means that, a seasoned IT-individual would be looking at something between 2700 and 3000 euros monthly.

Is this accurate?

I also noticed that a fellow forum user, cristina-b, just recently posted an inquiry, in which she asked for advice regarding moving to Finland; she stated that she would be earning 4000 euros GROSS when she starts her IT-job in October. I assume this is probably some sort of managerial position, or am I way off?

Thanks

**Sponsor:**

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:57 am

During the early stages of the current round of negotiations there was a table published in one of the Ilta Rags showing the range of salaries paid to various profesions...the name of the game was to compare these to the nurses pay....(who are of course more valuable to the readers of the afore mentioned Ilta Rags..)
YTK geeks (IT experts) were listed as having salary ranges, gross, ..2400 to 2900...one may assume that these are employed by the likes of TietoEnator not a PC shop repair department.

Ciprian · Post by **Ciprian** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:07 am

N.OK has €2900-€3500 JG7-9
that would match 4-7+y in IT exp

for IT wide get a subscription to TEK
they publish yearly stats (in fact poll results from members)

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:01 am

Thanks, Ciprian

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:22 am

I kind of found it funny that the Ilta-Rag's "lowest earning professions" had IT-professionals in the top of the lower earning scale.

The salary and terms depends though on three factors: your education, your experience and your expertese. So, if you are an esoteric hippie typing exotic languages, you may well be carted in from half across the globe; while theres people thrown out the back door as their skill set doesn't compile with the realities of business. But that is how it is anywhere.

Hence I'm saying the "Luck of the Niche"... theres on my floor a dozen guys, Irish, Czech, German, Indian... none of them was hired because they were fallen in love with lappland... if you get my drift

And yeah, only the ones with HBS been here for a while speak any smattering of Finnish...

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:27 am

It depends though on three factors: your education, your experience and your expertese.

Thanks, Hank

Mind if I ask a question? What would be a good salary for someone with B.Sc in Computer Management & Information Technology, AND a Masters' Degree in Software Engineering, AND four years experience in IT and Software field?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:34 am

I'd be starting the negotiations over 3.

The haggling though depends on how badly they want you (the last guy who knew the software just joined a startup) vs. how badly (in love with lappland, HBS) you want the job.

And big companies vs. small startups... lets say the "long and narrow bread" factors in.

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:40 am

I'd be starting the negotiations over 3.

The haggling though depends on how badly they want you

Thanks again Hank

So, what you mean is : I should propose 3000, and, of course, they will propose less, and we bargain until we reach an optimal figure of, say, 2800 or 2750?

OR

When you say i should start at 3000, you mean it CANNOT be lower than that, only higher?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:51 am

Well, *they* ain't going to go down

so scenario 1.

You can also discuss the "perks" - however a mobile is "standard", and healthcare is always included anyways (foreigners think this is some extra thing before they realize its a legal obligation). Paying for a flat and a company car *on top* is something (but taxationally it may bite you in the ass). Depends a bit where the company is located and where you are located (physically) as sometimes with parking, I'd rather live next to the office and walk to work vs. driving 2 hours (and spending an hour to find a parking spot), but YMMV.

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:56 am

Well, *they* ain't going to go down so scenario 1.

You can also discuss the "perks" - however a mobile is "standard", and healthcare is always included anyways (foreigners think this is some extra thing before they realize its a legal obligation). Paying for a flat and a company car *on top* is something (but taxationally it may bite you in the ass). Depends a bit where the company is located and where you are located (physically) as sometimes with parking, I'd rather live next to the office and walk to work vs. driving 2 hours, but YMMV

Thanks a lot Hank, really appreciate your advice.

Although, up there, I think you meant to say "they ain't going to go UP". In other words, no matter what I propose, they will, naturally, propose something LOWER.

Hence, if, as you say, I start bargaining at 3000, then what you mean is 3000 is the maximum i can get, based on my education and experience, right?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:38 am

I'd start the barganing *past* 3K... now if you really have the guru cape fluttering touching the 4, but as you can find out the interviewers' salary by a text message

... it all depends on the e, e & e. And the desirability factors.

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:33 pm

Thanks, Hank

Quin · Post by **Quin** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Just out of curiosity what is included in your 4 years of experience since that is really what you can base your salary off.

For example if you have 4 years of SAP basis and Infrastructre experience i would not settle for less 4k and probably 4.5k

However 4 years experience in first line support then 3 might even be a stretch.

sharpstone · Post by **sharpstone** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:33 pm

For example if you have 4 years of SAP basis and Infrastructre experience i would not settle for less 4k and probably 4.5k

However 4 years experience in first line support then 3 might even be a stretch.

1 year of programming; 1 year of software engineering and 2 years of software development & solutions

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:11 pm

sharpstone wrote:So, what you mean is : I should propose 3000, and, of course, they will propose less, and we bargain until we reach an optimal figure of, say, 2800 or 2750?

OR

When you say i should start at 3000, you mean it CANNOT be lower than that, only higher?

But you gotta be careful too..
They generally have the upper hand when they first ask you what your salary expectations are.
If you are smart enough...interject a question like this beforehand but not before you prove to them that you are that they want!!

or you can throw back the question to them asking them what they are thinking to offer for a position like this!!!
Generally, the HR controls the € and the manager controls the person!!
so they have an "upper limit" that cannot be crossed!
If you are close, and they want you, they ll offer you a little less..
but if you are far from that amount..then they could say, thank you but no thank you!!
So use your judgment of the situation!!
Moreover, find the "perks" that no one tells you that they give employees as it ll not get mentioned later!!

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