Studying with work permit

[Megstertex]

Be careful with this. You might get a nasty surprise. If you are here on a work permit-you need to work. Full time, as I understand for your residence permit to be valid. This is your first year with an A permit. So, if you plan on changing the nature of what you applied for (work to focus more on study) you should inform-there are different rules regarding ''students''. Also, this is not like many other countries where you work and study full time. Even Finns are not allowed to work more than a certain number of hours a week while studying. They are paid support to study and are expected to focus on that. If you work, and like one of my Finnish friends, accidentally earn more than you are allowed to as a student, you get to repay back some of your student support money at the end of the year. (Hyvää joulua!).

I doubt they would come after you right away, they have bigger fish to fry, but if you are perceived to be taking advantage of the system, based on ignorance or calculation, you may not be able to return here at all after they would revoke your permits and deport you. The government does have access to your bank account records, employee records and everything, they will notice the next time you have to re-apply (I'm guessing next year, if this is your first A-permit.) Tread lightly, my friend.

[sammy]

Also, this is not like many other countries where you work and study full time. Even Finns are not allowed to work more than a certain number of hours a week while studying.

Yes, but... no As regards Finns, in most cases, studying and working full-time are not actually strictly forbidden, if you can somehow manage to combine the schedules; but you're just not going to get government support for doing this. Logic: if you're working full-time, you also probably get paid for it - so what do you need the financial support for? The studies do not cost you anything; the university does not care a whit how much money you have and where you get it. But naturally they are not expecting you to complete one study credit per year. If the time allowed for you to graduate is restricted, this can make combining full-time studies and full-time work a practical impossibility. So even if it's 'allowed' it may not be possible.

Just for the record - naturally, Finns do not need to face the permit issues.

[Jaikkanen]

What a lovely surprise, plenty of posts for reading pleasure!

Q3) What in the wide world of sports makes you think the Finnish taxpayer should subsidise someone from outside of Finland any more than they already do (no HE tuition fees)
A3) ... ?

Well to be honest I never really cared to question those things. I only look at the criteria, and am trying to satisfy it. Which relates to my questions about type A and B permits earlier on. Type A suggests my residency is of satisfactory significance for benefits. Which aparently is possible to obtain in my position, as there has been a case similar to mine of which obtained a type A permit. However there was slight unique details to the case. if I got it, I see no probems. Your arguement makes sense, however I am just looking at the facts, and it doesn't seem all that impossible.

My reseach goes as far as kela website, and conversations with kela via telephone.

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english/ ... 01145354IL

It does say permanent resident on the page. Am I wrong to understand a type A suggests this status? Ether way, the words permanent residency was not mentioned by the people at kela, they only spoke of the actual type A permit specificly.

But heck, this is just as far as my understanding. I am not really saying much of this in much confidence of being correct. I could also be missing a point.

It's not your own business. This is not your country, you are here as a guest, and a such it is the business of the Finnish government as to why you are here - be it to study or to work, it is their business. Get used to it.

Well yes, sure it is their business. Perhaps more to what I meant was. What concern of their's is it? I mean, if I working like I agreed to. Why should they have a problem with it?

Full time work, part time study.. (suggests interest in work)
Full time study, part time work.. (suggests interest in study)

Sure, the second option sounds slightly suggestive. But that sounds like a very weak fact to base judgement on, considering the person IS working either way. Immigration is almost like the suspicious jealous wife.

"Where have you been lastnight? HM?! hanging out with that skank (school)!? You spend too much time with her... A friend you say?? You lie to me, you are having an affair aren't you! Tell me!"

Hmm... a problem here, if I'm not wrong. Did you check this information from KELA?

Odd, well yes I specificly spoke to kela via telephone about it. They seemed to think it was completely acceptable. But said I should speak to a local kela about the details of student benefits with full time criteria.

Mind you, perhaps a lesson or two (about the importance of good planning and perseverance, but not necessarily bike-riding) could be learnt from Taaremmas on this forum

Haha, I really didn't expect that. Hilarious. He fell off again a couple weeks ago on the way to Siwa! Slippery roads, hehe.

It still looks like misuse of a working permit to me.

Well thank you for your interest, but if you want to help, you need to bring me more than how it looks. Luckily I was born with 2 eyes and a brain. It LOOKS like it could be misuse of a working permit. So then I made a thread about it and hope someone can give a more definitive analyze/answer.

[sammy]

Hmm... a problem here, if I'm not wrong. Did you check this information from KELA?

Odd, well yes I specificly spoke to kela via telephone about it. They seemed to think it was completely acceptable. But said I should speak to a local kela about the details of student benefits with full time criteria.

Yep, but it wasn't quite clear from your earlier posts exactly what KELA benefit would perfectly acceptable Anyway, if I were you, I'd check this aikuislukio thing pronto from the people at The Kela Centre for Student Financial Aid (it's in Jyväskylä btw)...

helpline 020 634 6770, fax 020 634 6710. E-mail: [email protected]

[sinikala]

What a lovely surprise, plenty of posts for reading pleasure!

Q3) What in the wide world of sports makes you think the Finnish taxpayer should subsidise someone from outside of Finland any more than they already do (no HE tuition fees)
A3) ... ?

Well to be honest I never really cared to question those things. I only look at the criteria, and am trying to satisfy it. Which relates to my questions about type A and B permits earlier on. Type A suggests my residency is of satisfactory significance for benefits. Which aparently is possible to obtain in my position, as there has been a case similar to mine of which obtained a type A permit. However there was slight unique details to the case. if I got it, I see no probems. Your arguement makes sense, however I am just looking at the facts, and it doesn't seem all that impossible.

My reseach goes as far as kela website, and conversations with kela via telephone.

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english/ ... 01145354IL

It does say permanent resident on the page. Am I wrong to understand a type A suggests this status? Ether way, the words permanent residency was not mentioned by the people at kela, they only spoke of the actual type A permit specificly.

But heck, this is just as far as my understanding. I am not really saying much of this in much confidence of being correct. I could also be missing a point.

I may be wrong, but a type A permit is not permanent. You *used* to need to have held the type A for a certain period to qualify for permanent residence; either 4 or 5 years, IIRC. Which means 4 or 5 years of working and paying into Kela before getting the permanent status.

Enk might know the rules.

From what I've read on here Type B (for study purposes), did not count towards permanent residence status.

It's not your own business. This is not your country, you are here as a guest, and a such it is the business of the Finnish government as to why you are here - be it to study or to work, it is their business. Get used to it.

Well yes, sure it is their business. Perhaps more to what I meant was. What concern of their's is it? I mean, if I working like I agreed to. Why should they have a problem with it?

Full time work, part time study.. (suggests interest in work)

Means you are paying tax and not being a large burden on the educational system. You signed up for this arrangement when you applied for the class A residence permit. Nobody forced you.

Full time study, part time work.. (suggests interest in study)

Means you signed up to study, you have to bring with you, and inject into the Finnish economy ca. €5k p.a. You are allowed to work a little part time, which will be taxed at a very low rate (contributes little to Finland). For this you need a different kind of residence permit.

Sure, the second option sounds slightly suggestive. But that sounds like a very weak fact to base judgement on, considering the person IS working either way. Immigration is almost like the suspicious jealous wife.

"Where have you been lastnight? HM?! hanging out with that skank (school)!? You spend too much time with her... A friend you say?? You lie to me, you are having an affair aren't you! Tell me!"

I have no idea what you are on about. There are no free rides, your presence in the country is tolerated so long as you give more than you
take.

You seem to be unable to absorb this most simple of concepts.

I suggest you check how the UK treats non-EU citizens who want to study full time (I assume you are non-EU, otherwise the residence permit would be a non-issue). Finland is generous by comparison.

Well thank you for your interest, but if you want to help, you need to bring me more than how it looks. Luckily I was born with 2 eyes and a brain. It LOOKS like it could be misuse of a working permit. So then I made a thread about it and hope someone can give a more definitive analyze/answer.

deep sigh, shakes head sagely.

[Jaikkanen]

Means you are paying tax and not being a large burden on the educational system. You signed up for this arrangement when you applied for the class A residence permit. Nobody forced you.

I have no idea what you are on about. There are no free rides, your presence in the country is tolerated so long as you give more than you
take.

You seem to be unable to absorb this most simple of concepts.

I understood, but it sounded more like logical thought than rather factual policies. But hell, if you say that won't fly with immigration. That is more than enough for me. Surely makes sense.

Mind you, perhaps a lesson or two (about the importance of good planning and perseverance, but not necessarily bike-riding) could be learnt from Taaremmas on this forum.

By the way, you do know I actually live with Taaremmas, right? I assumed you knew, but I told him what you said. After we finshed laughing our asses off, we weren't sure if you knew.

I was 2 metres infront of him as he crashed that bike, saw it all happen.

[rinso]

By the way, you do know I actually live with Taaremmas, right? I assumed you knew, but I told him what you said. After we finshed laughing our asses off, we weren't sure if you knew.

I was 2 metres infront of him as he crashed that bike, saw it all happen.

Not so. My flatmate was unable to pay anything towards the rent for October, and with the only other option being kicked out of the house by the owners, I had to cover his rent.

I'm going to have a serious chat with my flatmate soon because it's ridiculous......I'm not sure I can stand living with this guy for another month.

[sammy]

By the way, you do know I actually live with Taaremmas, right? I assumed you knew, but I told him what you said. After we finshed laughing our asses off, we weren't sure if you knew.

I was 2 metres infront of him as he crashed that bike, saw it all happen.

No I did not know this, but the thought did indeed briefly cross my mind that you might at least have met Taaremmas... since the words Hämeenlinna and aikuislukio cropped up...

[Taaremmas]

By the way, you do know I actually live with Taaremmas, right? I assumed you knew, but I told him what you said. After we finshed laughing our asses off, we weren't sure if you knew.

I was 2 metres infront of him as he crashed that bike, saw it all happen.

No I did not know this, but the thought did indeed briefly cross my mind that you might at least have met Taaremmas... since the words Hämeenlinna and aikuislukio cropped up...

Yeah, he's sitting next to me right now...funny situation. Apparently my bike crash was "surreal" and "awesome"

[Jaikkanen]

Thanks for bringing up how much I sound like a dick now. I wish I could find some posts of you regarding some of your own difficulties. Too bad I probably wont find any. Unfortunately things haven't been much better for me than they have for him, he has had to take the fall for my financial difficulties. He tells me that he has a small gathering of groupies on this forum nowadays, no wonder.

[sammy]

Haha, I really didn't expect that.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

All in all, it would be kind of interesting to hear how your permit application procedures turn out... I've had the impression that it's rather tricky to transfer a (non-EU) working holiday visa into a residence permit while actually staying in the country, be it for work or studies, but perhaps it is possible after all? Let us know what happens.

[sinikala]

Thanks for bringing up how much I sound like a dick now. I wish I could find some posts of you regarding some of your own difficulties. Too bad I probably wont find any. Unfortunately things haven't been much better for me than they have for him, he has had to take the fall for my financial difficulties. He tells me that he has a small gathering of groupies on this forum nowadays, no wonder.

Interesting to know what are the specifics of your case ... Taaremmas appears to be British... are you also EU or not?

Also bizzare that both of you consider going to school to be studying. Putting you through secondary education is not the responsibility of the Finnish taxpayer.

I would be interested (and surprised) to know if Taaremmas actually gets kela study aid for attending high school.

Your financial difficulties paint the picture that your input into the Finnish tax / benefit system is the thin end of sweet FA, and you are still hoping to get money out of the system?

My personal opinion ... which I try to keep out of this type of thread is that puts you only one notch above those Romanians kneeling begging in the streets. Key difference is merely that you intend to do your begging on paper.

I would be embarrassed to have put myself into that sort of position, I would also be embarrassed to bum money from my parents like Taaremmas has admitted to. If you are over the age of 18 and choose to fly the nest you should make sure you can stand on your own two feet and not rely on the charity of others or the State.

[sammy]

Also bizzare that both of you consider going to school to be studying. Putting you through secondary education is not the responsibility of the Finnish taxpayer.

I'd disagree a bit here. Agreed, the Finnish taxpayer does not 'owe' these guys anything at all, and in fact I believe they won't be able to get any student benefit from the govt. (?)

But, brushing the financial issues aside for a sec, if someone is motivated enough to go through the numerous hoops of actually finding a realistic study option (secondary education opportunities available in English & for non-residents are very scarce in here) and determined to follow it through -completing lukio is maybe not an 'academic' feat but hard work nevertheless- studying Finnish on the side... then just perhaps he or she kind of... deserves the chance, whether it is the taxpayers' responsibility or not.

Yes, it is a question of money, the lukio placements are not "for free" even if the pupils themselves do not pay for them; but is it merely a question of money? 'Foreign' lukio students, and there aren't/won't be loads of them mind you, are not perhaps currently contributing to the Finnish society, at least not financially. It's likely that they will, though. There's no guarantee of that, but there's no 'guarantee' in a Finn staying in Finland after lukio either.

Just a few thoughts

[sinikala]

Also bizzare that both of you consider going to school to be studying. Putting you through secondary education is not the responsibility of the Finnish taxpayer.

I'd disagree a bit here. Agreed, the Finnish taxpayer does not 'owe' these guys anything at all, and in fact I believe they won't be able to get any student benefit from the govt. (?)

But, brushing the financial issues aside for a sec, if someone is motivated enough to go through the numerous hoops of actually finding a realistic study option (secondary education opportunities available in English & for non-residents are very scarce in here) and determined to follow it through -completing lukio is maybe not an 'academic' feat but hard work nevertheless- studying Finnish on the side... then just perhaps he or she kind of... deserves the chance, whether it is the taxpayers' responsibility or not.

Yes, it is a question of money, the lukio placements are not "for free" even if the pupils themselves do not pay for them; but is it merely a question of money? 'Foreign' lukio students, and there aren't/won't be loads of them mind you, are not perhaps currently contributing to the Finnish society, at least not financially. It's likely that they will, though. There's no guarantee of that, but there's no 'guarantee' in a Finn staying in Finland after lukio either.

Just a few thoughts

To reply to that in full would take far too much typing, and TBH I don't care enough about the topic to do so...

I will say that I suspect that the guy who moved here and broke his collar bone, has underestimated the challenge faced in relocating, learning a language fluently, but also underestimated how much effort it will take to do what not even all Finns manage to do, which is pass Lukio.

To fail to prepare, is to prepare to fail.

But good luck to him never the less.

[sammy]

I will say that I suspect that the guy who moved here and broke his collar bone, has underestimated the challenge faced in relocating, learning a language fluently, but also underestimated how much effort it will take to do what not even all Finns manage to do, which is pass Lukio.

Yeah, that's perfectly possible. But we can't tell definitely can we... perhaps we'll one day hear the Cynic's Choir joyfully performing the "Told You So" finale of this particular opera However I hope not.... so good luck for Taaremmas all the same!