So in a month or so, I expect my work permit application to be accepted. Crossing fingers. Though I applied for a WORK permit, I actually have very little interest in working. Mostly interested in the residence permit itself. And was recently considering studying. But I had to main concerns with that.
First being, just because the residence permit was given on the basis of working, surely does not restrict me from studying, does it?
Secondly, I spoke with KELA.fi in relation to financial aid. Which they confirmed my understanding of the criteria. Also explaining that my permit must be type A. So my question is, are working permits type A usually? Or are they always type A or what.
Studying with work permit
The type of the work permit is decided mainly based on whether you have full time job or not (I am not sure but it mainly depends on what the employment letter submitted to UVI along with the UVI 101 form.)
If the employment is on contract basis there are chances that the Work permit could be a B type which doesnt get any Kela benefits. Most of the IT servies company (mainly Indian IT companies) brings proffessionals in B type Visa. The B type Visa doesnt count towards the Residence permit as the criteria says that person has to be in A type visa and shoud be staying here in Finland for four Years...
The International students who come here for studies are given B type Visa is what i heard.
Regards
Decoy.
If the employment is on contract basis there are chances that the Work permit could be a B type which doesnt get any Kela benefits. Most of the IT servies company (mainly Indian IT companies) brings proffessionals in B type Visa. The B type Visa doesnt count towards the Residence permit as the criteria says that person has to be in A type visa and shoud be staying here in Finland for four Years...
The International students who come here for studies are given B type Visa is what i heard.
Regards
Decoy.
As I am clearly aware already, only type A will satisfy the criteria for kela support. And had so far figured the information given by my employer would be the major factor to it. She put on the paperwork that my work is 36 hours per week (which is full time). And that the employment is open-ended (permanent). And just to note, I work as a cleaner. To me that sounds like a pretty positive application for hope of a type A permit. Anything you can add to, with that information I just gave?
Holy !"#¤%. That is a huge problem if that is true. What if I wanted to change workplace, work for someone different? Surely they don't expect me to completely reapply my permit, I am sure you can just notify them of that can't you. But are you certain of this?
What about loss of hours? What if I was working very low hours after I recieve my permit. I could still study then.
What about loss of hours? What if I was working very low hours after I recieve my permit. I could still study then.
Ok well shortly after speaking with immigration department of police. The idea is, if you aren't working, or enough, you are starving for food and going to die. Therefore they expect you to come to their door gasping for money to feed yourself. So they can tell you how bad of a boy you have been, and tell you to go back home if you can't behave.
But really it is your own business what you do, it seems. You can change jobs, change hours. They don't give a !"#¤%, you don't need to notify them. Which is very convinient. However she was wondering if their might be any problems to me studying at the same time. I am pretty sure there isn't.
Also it starts to make me wonder if they will crack the !"#¤% if I recieve aid from KELA, they will start going "wtf bitch, aren't you working?!". Assuming I get a type A permit atleast.
But yeah, Losing my job doesn't seem like a big deal then if it happened. I will just find a different job. No biggy it seems. Thanks for letting me know though.
But really it is your own business what you do, it seems. You can change jobs, change hours. They don't give a !"#¤%, you don't need to notify them. Which is very convinient. However she was wondering if their might be any problems to me studying at the same time. I am pretty sure there isn't.
Also it starts to make me wonder if they will crack the !"#¤% if I recieve aid from KELA, they will start going "wtf bitch, aren't you working?!". Assuming I get a type A permit atleast.
But yeah, Losing my job doesn't seem like a big deal then if it happened. I will just find a different job. No biggy it seems. Thanks for letting me know though.
Sorry, I really know some cases when person with residence permit 'A' based on employment - lost his work and tried to do a 'trick' - go to Kela for help (and here I am not sure now - was it Kela or employment office).
Everything was 'good', they do something (I do not know what exactly). And in 2-3 weeks they receive letter from a police - their residence permit was canceled and they have 3-7 days to leave Finland.
Also about free change of jobs - it is really not so, or you did not understand them. Usually just permanent residence permit has no any limitation (you will be able to receive it after 4 years with 'A'). First residence permit usually is limited to 1 employer or special field.
So in case if you will receive an status 'A' - I think you will be limited to 'cleaning field' (if you will receive 'B' - I think it will be limited to your current employer).
So - when you want to change your job - you must check, is it legal or no. And if it is not allowed for you to work on new position - you must do new application in police (I have done so in the begin of September - and I receive allowance and new residence permit just 3 days ago) - and they will decide (or ask employment office if them will not be sure by themself).
Everything was 'good', they do something (I do not know what exactly). And in 2-3 weeks they receive letter from a police - their residence permit was canceled and they have 3-7 days to leave Finland.
Also about free change of jobs - it is really not so, or you did not understand them. Usually just permanent residence permit has no any limitation (you will be able to receive it after 4 years with 'A'). First residence permit usually is limited to 1 employer or special field.
So in case if you will receive an status 'A' - I think you will be limited to 'cleaning field' (if you will receive 'B' - I think it will be limited to your current employer).
So - when you want to change your job - you must check, is it legal or no. And if it is not allowed for you to work on new position - you must do new application in police (I have done so in the begin of September - and I receive allowance and new residence permit just 3 days ago) - and they will decide (or ask employment office if them will not be sure by themself).
No suprise it got cancelled, if he had no job, and asked for financial aid, that is how the police found out, and that is exactly what the woman said at the police station. "if you try to go in for support, the police will get a wiff of that you don't have a job". Which would mean it was because he was unemployed, or they just don't like us recieving benefits regardless.
Can you tell me exactly what the letter had said, did it specificly relate to the fact he was unemployed?
Well actually, this is not my first residence permit, it is my second. As at the moment I am living on a Working Holiday Visa for a B residence permit.
They spoke nothing of it being subject to the type of permit, A or B. The fact that they told me I can freely change to different jobs (in cleaning) ether tells me they are completely lost (not impossible). Or that because as I had said, it is an extended residence permit application, therefore all second residence permits are type A?
Can you tell me exactly what the letter had said, did it specificly relate to the fact he was unemployed?
Well actually, this is not my first residence permit, it is my second. As at the moment I am living on a Working Holiday Visa for a B residence permit.
They spoke nothing of it being subject to the type of permit, A or B. The fact that they told me I can freely change to different jobs (in cleaning) ether tells me they are completely lost (not impossible). Or that because as I had said, it is an extended residence permit application, therefore all second residence permits are type A?
That was hardly called for. Clearly I never stated any intention not to work, though perhaps less hours. Even if I do have a lack of interest for work, that is irrelevant. As if we go to work every morning because we all find it fun to do and simply to please our employers. I work to live, not the other way around. Despite what immigration policy thinks atleast.How to stay here under false pretences, get money from Kela and don't be evicted?
I want to study and do something productive, I am trying to find a way to accomplish it the only way I can without leaving Finland. And it would be kinda nice if KELA could help financially. This whole deal makes me feel like I can't wipe my own ass without the correct permit.
My questions are, within my circumstances..
Is studying at the same time legit?
Is recieving KELA payments legit while working legit?
My initial view on it is that their shouldn't be a probem at all about studying. I mean, studying is my own business, what do they care if I want to learn something while I am here working. I mean, what if I wanted to marry a woman? Does that mean I can't because I am here under the basis of working?
"Sorry, you are here to work, not to love someone aswell. Unfortunately we cannot allow you to eat our food, drink our water or enjoy the wonderful snow of our winter either."
Anyway, enough of me mocking immigration. Those are almost the same questions I started off with. Hopefully someone can clear them up further more.
Thanks for the information so far decoy77 and mdn.
Wouldn't it also be "kinda nice" if KELA could help you buy a new car, and pay some holiday expenses as well 
Should the magic words "I want" make everyone eligible for KELA support?
Nah. It is a bit complicated when you consider working and studying at the same time... the unemployment benefit and the student money are not the same thing you know. Which KELA benefits are you referring to actually?
For example, the KELA student benefit can usually only be granted for full-time studies that lead to a degree. That's why Finnish university/polytechnic students can NOT be registered as unemployed - ie if you're registered as a degree student, you can't receive unemployment benefit. Not even during your holidays.
Btw you do also know, don't you, that if you get the KELA student benefit, it is possible to work part-time but you're only allowed to earn something like approx 500€ per month IIRC, otherwise your KELA student benefit will get snipped.
(btw these things have nothing to do with residence permits, they're the Rule of the Natives like me as well... Finns can also receive either the unemployment benefit or the student benefit, not both at the same time)
If you're staying in the country 'on the force' of your work permit, I'd suppose you could do part-time studies. But I'm not at all sure whether these would make you eligible for KELA student benefits, in case you'd find a part-time study option leading to an academic or a vocational degree.
Should the magic words "I want" make everyone eligible for KELA support?
Nah. It is a bit complicated when you consider working and studying at the same time... the unemployment benefit and the student money are not the same thing you know. Which KELA benefits are you referring to actually?
For example, the KELA student benefit can usually only be granted for full-time studies that lead to a degree. That's why Finnish university/polytechnic students can NOT be registered as unemployed - ie if you're registered as a degree student, you can't receive unemployment benefit. Not even during your holidays.
Btw you do also know, don't you, that if you get the KELA student benefit, it is possible to work part-time but you're only allowed to earn something like approx 500€ per month IIRC, otherwise your KELA student benefit will get snipped.
(btw these things have nothing to do with residence permits, they're the Rule of the Natives like me as well... Finns can also receive either the unemployment benefit or the student benefit, not both at the same time)
If you're staying in the country 'on the force' of your work permit, I'd suppose you could do part-time studies. But I'm not at all sure whether these would make you eligible for KELA student benefits, in case you'd find a part-time study option leading to an academic or a vocational degree.
Yes it would be kinda nice.. why?! do they offer it?! (joke)Wouldn't it also be "kinda nice" if KELA could help you buy a new car, and pay some holiday expenses as well
Of course it shouldn't, wasn't saying it should, the question is more like why shouldn't I? (get benefits I mean)And yes, I will clear that up for you. I am refering to the student benefits. I plan to study FULL time. Hopefully atleast. Which is why I speak of only part time work, full time work and study would kinda suck. But this is not set in stone, it is just preferable. I will do what I have to do in order to study. Btw, I intend to study at an aikuislukio. Which aparently if fitting full time criteria is good for student benefits.
Of course, and pretty much anyone who has ever dealt with similar organizations in most countries would expect something similar.Btw you do also know, don't you, that if you get the KELA student benefit, it is possible to work part-time but you're only allowed to earn something like approx 500€ per month IIRC, otherwise your KELA student benefit will get snipped.
If I had no choice I would do part time, but yeah it is not preferable.If you're staying in the country 'on the force' of your work permit, I'd suppose you could do part-time studies. But I'm not at all sure whether these would make you eligible for KELA student benefits, in case you'd find a part-time study option leading to an academic or a vocational degree.
Hmm... a problem here, if I'm not wrong. Did you check this information from KELA?Jaikkanen wrote:Btw, I intend to study at an aikuislukio. Which aparently if fitting full time criteria is good for student benefits.
"Upper secondary school (lukio) studies targeted for adults are not considered full-time studies, so they do not make you eligible for student benefit."www.kela.fi wrote:Aikuisille tarkoitettuja lukio-opintoja (aikuislukiossa tai lukion aikuislinjalla) ei katsota päätoimisiksi, joten ne eivät oikeuta opintotukeen.
You should not double-check whether the aikuislukio you're planning to study at is an exception to this rule, or not.
Mind you, perhaps a lesson or two (about the importance of good planning and perseverance, but not necessarily bike-riding) could be learnt from Taaremmas on this forum
Q1) How long have you been here?Jaikkanen wrote:I want to study and do something productive, I am trying to find a way to accomplish it the only way I can without leaving Finland. And it would be kinda nice if KELA could help financially. This whole deal makes me feel like I can't wipe my own ass without the correct permit.
A1) not long enough to be a permanent resident.
Q2) How much have you paid into Kela?
A2) Can't be much on the basis of (i) you are in a low paid job (ii) the amount of time worked
Q3) What in the wide world of sports makes you think the Finnish taxpayer should subsidise someone from outside of Finland any more than they already do (no HE tuition fees)
A3) ... ?
Studying part time whilst working seems totally legitimate. If you want to study full time and work part time, then you will need a residence permit based on being here to study.Jaikkanen wrote:My questions are, within my circumstances..
Is studying at the same time legit?
Is receiving KELA payments legit while working legit?
I doubt you will get anything out of Kela before you have paid in for several years.
It's not your own business. This is not your country, you are here as a guest, and a such it is the business of the Finnish government as to why you are here - be it to study or to work, it is their business. Get used to it.Jaikkanen wrote:My initial view on it is that their shouldn't be a probem at all about studying. I mean, studying is my own business, what do they care if I want to learn something while I am here working. I mean, what if I wanted to marry a woman? Does that mean I can't because I am here under the basis of working?
If you want to be here to work, pay tax and eventually get the benefit of the Kela system that is one possibility.
If you want to be here to study, work part time that is another possibility, but do not expect Kela support without earning it.
