Do i need to belong to union and which one?

[paddymorgan27]

Hi all! i am emigrating to finland in two weeks and have arranged a job as a plumber.
I am just a littel unsure about what union to join , do i join with the union my enployeer suggests or pick my own?? How dose it work? how much will it cost me ? what are the benifits i will recive?
Thanks for the info people Paddy

[kirky]

hey paddy i would try http://www.rakennusliitto.fi they are the finnish construction union. i think the cost is 1.5% of your salary each month.

so you are a plumber i am too but hell i could not find any plumber that would take me on so i am working as a general builder at the moment.

where are you from. do you find pluming here much different.

[Hank W.]

First person that actually has a job organized before moving over. My goodness, are you true? OK, so for a run-down read http://www.ytk.fi => ABC it explains the "system" in Finland. (They're an unemployment fund only). And to get anything remotely resembling a dole you need to pay contributions (and work) for 10 months. Unions do have their own "benefits" as in if you get into a wrangle with the employer they offer legal help etc. the building industry was traditionally a highly organized "shop industry" so they might look a bit croocked at non-union people, though as the industrys now full of "sent-workers" they won't necessarily piss in your tea. As kirky says builders are in rakennusliitto.

[paddymorgan27]

Thanks for the info lads! much appreaciated .. some good tips there.
i sort of cheated on the job front i got my Finnish wife to phone up a few big companys. she then asked for the manager of each department personaly and that they will recive my cv by email shortly.
My wife can be quite persitant . But that was 6 months ago, about 3months ago i had my first interview which lasted 2hrs, back home in England its normaly 10mins. So now the future looms ,in two weeks i will be living in helsinki and hopefully plumbing up your appartment blocks and supermarkets.
If anyone knows of any further info i might need to know ie healthcare cover ,what tax i can exspect to pay, and Where is the best place to FISH!.... Thanks Paddy

[Hank W.]

Good for her now your Finnish wife will only have to explain to you "the things everybody knows"...

Oh, before you leave Ireland get that EU-101 health card, it'll cover you before you get the Finnish card. OK so tax calculator is at http://www.vero.fi and theres the "paperwork rumba" explained here about 1001 times....

The brief version:
EU person gets first a work contract from the job. Written.
(If boss says no, needs a number first - tell boss to call the maistraatti and ask themselves what does the person need to get a number)

With the contract goes to the maistraatti and says: My job, no number, need registration.
Maistraatti gives a number on a paper saying "temporarily registered alien".
With two papers alien jumps in the ufo and flies to the tax office: verotoimisto ***
Says: my number, my salary, need tax card.
Gets tax card.
Goes to bank - says my number, my address, my job, gets bank account.
Gives tax card and personal number and bank account number to employer;
Works.
First salary comes to account, bank statement comes to home.
Takes work contract, magistrate paper, bank statement, rent contract... chorus: "all the papers": Goes to Police station with 40€. Says: I want EU registration. Gets EU registration paper.
Goes to Maistraatti, with... chorus "all the papers" : says: I am now EU registered, I want to be in the computer as permanantly domiciled. Gets a paper....
Goes to KELA, with... chorus *all the papers* ,says Want KELA card, gets a lot of grief...

Welcome to Finland. You have now all the papers

*** reportedly, it is these days you just need to go to the tax office to get this first round done; but the papers take a few days to process...


Remember: right papers, right order, right offices. Otherwise they say "piss off"...

[paddymorgan27]

very helpfull Hank! thankyou.. it sounds likes i will be presented with alot of paper work Nice!. at least if i run out of arse paper there will be something other then iltalehti to wipe on

[raamv]

One of the few think ahead posts I ve seen here..
If only everyone is doing the job things like you, FF would have 10000 less posts
Do remember insurance ( renters or owners whichever).
Driving license to think about.. keeping your old one or exchanging it
Moving related things ( Electronics, household furniture unless you wanna raid Ikea, Car owned for 6 months or more.. etc).. remember its cheaper in Ireland than here for many things and so easier to make a list of those and get it shipped via a container or so..

[paddymorgan27]

Raamv you have raised an intresting point there ,i can't beleave how much things like a washing machine costs in finland .Luckly most of my appliance's are quite new so i will be driving it all over in a big van. i will be happy just taking my big lcd Tv, but the wife demands we take aload of crap with us!.
I dont think i should have to much problems with the voltage on the electrical appliances? i hope not i will cry if i changed the plug and the tv exsploded!. I found that taking a road trip with ferrys works out about 3000.00 euros cheaper then shiping + you can have fun all the way to finland and i have a big ass dog 50kg oldenglish sheep dog, british airways wanted £1200.00 ,Finair wanted £800.00 to fly him so road trip it is!

[Rob A.]

Good for her now your Finnish wife will only have to explain to you "the things everybody knows"...

Oh, before you leave Ireland get that EU-101 health card, it'll cover you before you get the Finnish card. OK so tax calculator is at http://www.vero.fi and theres the "paperwork rumba" explained here about 1001 times....

The brief version:
EU person gets first a work contract from the job. Written.
(If boss says no, needs a number first - tell boss to call the maistraatti and ask themselves what does the person need to get a number)

With the contract goes to the maistraatti and says: My job, no number, need registration.
Maistraatti gives a number on a paper saying "temporarily registered alien".
With two papers alien jumps in the ufo and flies to the tax office: verotoimisto ***
Says: my number, my salary, need tax card.
Gets tax card.
Goes to bank - says my number, my address, my job, gets bank account.
Gives tax card and personal number and bank account number to employer;
Works.
First salary comes to account, bank statement comes to home.
Takes work contract, magistrate paper, bank statement, rent contract... chorus: "all the papers": Goes to Police station with 40€. Says: I want EU registration. Gets EU registration paper.
Goes to Maistraatti, with... chorus "all the papers" : says: I am now EU registered, I want to be in the computer as permanantly domiciled. Gets a paper....
Goes to KELA, with... chorus *all the papers* ,says Want KELA card, gets a lot of grief...

Welcome to Finland. You have now all the papers

*** reportedly, it is these days you just need to go to the tax office to get this first round done; but the papers take a few days to process...


Remember: right papers, right order, right offices. Otherwise they say "piss off"...

...and no wonder there's so much whining from the foreigners....How can you dance to that music without an IQ of ...oh, I dunno...150??? ...sooner or later you're going to "fall off some Finnish cliff"... putoat suomalainen kallio...

[Hank W.]

...and no wonder there's so much whining from the foreigners....How can you dance to that music without an IQ of ...oh, I dunno...150???

Ah, see its social Darwinism chlorinating the gene pool

...sooner or later you're going to "fall off some Finnish cliff"... putoat suomalainen kallio...

Minulla on kaikki paperit... kaikki paperit... (Finns have no sense of self-depreciating humor, remember )

[raamv]

Raamv you have raised an intresting point there ,i can't beleave how much things like a washing machine costs in finland .Luckly most of my appliance's are quite new so i will be driving it all over in a big van. i will be happy just taking my big lcd Tv, but the wife demands we take aload of crap with us!.
I dont think i should have to much problems with the voltage on the electrical appliances? i hope not i will cry if i changed the plug and the tv exsploded!. I found that taking a road trip with ferrys works out about 3000.00 euros cheaper then shiping + you can have fun all the way to finland and i have a big ass dog 50kg oldenglish sheep dog, british airways wanted £1200.00 ,Finair wanted £800.00 to fly him so road trip it is!

Much better if you can drive a container here and back so you can offload things here and then take it back ( charge people who wants to send things back )..
The only thing between Ireland ( I was there last week) is the "Plug" issue ( not voltage), so get like 5 or 6 sets of Irish voltage regulated Extenders so you can connect Irish plugs in that and then use 1 plug converter (Irish to Finnish which costs 6 euros and you might 5-6 for those 5 or 6 sets..) to connect to the wall socket..
BTW, your wife is absolutely right on taking a load...its could be worth it in the long run to take a couple of loads!!

[bullacc]

...and no wonder there's so much whining from the foreigners....How can you dance to that music without an IQ of ...oh, I dunno...150??? ...sooner or later you're going to "fall off some Finnish cliff"... putoat suomalainen kallio...

Actually, that's extremely easy, and takes little time, i don't know what everybody's complaining about...

Try Romania, as an alternative, for example - the bureaucratic system is a sweet combination of byzantine + communist implementations.
The entire procedure that Hank W. posted would contain at least 75% extra steps in Romania, take at least 2/3 months to do, and you wont be able to complete at least 80% of the steps without waiting in huge lines for hours, or without "greasing some palms" - and in some cases even that doesn't work, as the old communist system wasn't based as much on how much money you have, but on who you know.

The Finnish system is a breeze compared to that - i've done half of the steps in my first day here, after stepping out of the plane, in only 2-3 hours - and that including transport between locations.

[sinikala]

i've done half of the steps in my first day here, after stepping out of the plane, in only 2-3 hours - and that including transport between locations.

2-3 hours is a bit less time than it took me. But if somone told you all the places to go and in which order, it's surely less than 1 day in total.

As I have mentioned before, Hank's information, whilst probably doable is not the only way to go about it. Provided you take your passport with you.

Before you come, if you don't already have one apply for an EHIC

https://www.sspcrs.ie/ehic/e111info.jsp

So, my order IIRC was

1) Passport and work contract to Maistraati for the ID number
2) Police station for residence permit application (passport + ID number + work contract + cash) ready after 2-3 weeks.
3) To the Bank (passport + ID number + work contract) to open account
4) Informed employer of ID number and bank account number

IIRC - that was all done on the same day. I think I had to

5) go back to the Police station to collect the ID card, and heard that I was supposed to
6) go back to Maistrati with that residence permit card to show it was all done

which I duly did, but they seemed a bit bemused as to why I did that. Seems a bit pointless as there was no ID number on the residence permit.

7) Vero ... tax was deducted at source

presumably the tax office was informed by my employer what my salary was, and how much they were getting from me, as I certainly didn't contact them. Infact I've only once contacted Vero, that was by phone and was months after I arrived (and they didn't speak English!).

Kela - I was a bit lazy in getting the card as the workplace had a private health clinic if I'd needed it. I didn't need to go to Kela so I don't know why Hank recommend that you should. It's been many years, but if you look on the Kela website with your missus, seems you can

8.) download a form SV157s under the section "Lomakeet" - "Kela-kortti"

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf/forms?readform

At least I filled in an online form, printed it off and the card was sent to me by post. If you want a photo Kela card, it costs and you have to go in person.

9) After 6 months here, probably advisable to exchange driving licences for a Finnish photo version ... this is also done at the Police station.

In summary, Finland at least four agencies (Police / Magistrate / Kela / Vero) all issuing numbers and cards, seems to me the left hand often doesn't know what the right is doing. At least I'm used to having a single N.I. number valid for all.

And before Henrik spouts some bollocks about gas bills or cheques, welcome to the land where you can change your address to whatever you want with no proof of living in that address by filling out a form in the post office, if that's not "cows in the field" I don't know what is.

[Hank W.]

In summary, Finland at least four agencies (Police / Magistrate / Kela / Vero) all issuing numbers and cards, seems to me the left hand often doesn't know what the right is doing. At least I'm used to having a single N.I. number valid for all.

Well, hopefully you only have one number, as then you are a different person. There is a central organization, the Väestörekisterikeskus that issues the numbers, so that a baby will get a number off a "pool" of numbers like a funny foreigner fumbling to the various offices, be it these days Vero or KELA who have now joined the system so that they can submit the initial registration to the maistraatti, where the county registrar is the person in charge of keeping the pigs in queue. The police however has a separate system that gets information from the maistraatties, but due to data privacy issues the databases aren't totally visble and you need to know which database is a top-down one and where a flowback occurs.

And before Henrik spouts some bollocks about gas bills or cheques, welcome to the land where you can change your address to whatever you want with no proof of living in that address by filling out a form in the post office, if that's not "cows in the field" I don't know what is.

Well as the person will receive a letter from the magistrate to confirm the move, so the person living there might be slightly annoyed, the magistrate even more annoyed and the person finding himself not living anywhere and charged with making a false entry into government registry which then gets serious. Making an address change into the post office of course changes your mail, but going to the doctor/bank/travelcard whatnot - no you don't live there - piss off. As that information is updated top-down (with some exceptions).

[interleukin]

I didn't need to go to Kela so I don't know why Hank recommend that you should.

It is smart to be registered at KELA even if you don't go to normal doctors, because without KELA you are not part of the social system. You don't get any money if you are out of work and have no money for food (hopefully not needed any way for OP!), but also if you have long periods of illness or if you or your spouse want to have maternity/paternity leave, you have to be registered with KELA. If you take medicines, you will most likely get them cheaper if you are "in the KELA computers". To get the EU health coverage (valid when in touristing in other countries), you have to be registered with KELA.

Getting the actual KELA card is much less important. The card just proves that you are in the KELA computers. It just saves them the work of looking you up in the computer to see if your name is there or not.