Question about wiring new ceiling lights

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:35 pm

Thought that it was about time to update the early eighties ceiling lights in the house (boy they are ugly). I just had a question about the wiring if anyone could help me understand. Every light in the downstairs of our house has 3 wires coming from the ceiling. I assume they are positive, negative, and ground. While upstairs in the house there are only two wires coming from each light in the ceiling. Positive and negative. These row houses were built in the early eighties. Why would they wir eit this way so that upstairs there is no ground wire for the lights? Does this make a difference?
Also, while shopping today I noticed that all of the ceiling lights that they sell have a plug on them. A smaller version of what you plug into your wall outlets. Do they make them this way because the newer houses just require you to unplug and plug in your new lights when you want to change them. Avoiding the need for an electrician for those who do not want to get into any wiring?? Thanks.

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mCowboy · Post by **mCowboy** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:47 pm

New houses have the plugs ready for easy installation. Old houses just have wires hanging out from the ceiling. For older houses, sokeripala is used for installation and anyone can do that. If you buy a new lamp, just cut off the plug and use the wires and sokeripala to install it. This is allowed to be done without an electrician.

Sokeripala

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:29 pm

I wouldn't trust the ground wire to be a ground wire unless I had an electrician check it that its actually grounded.

So ok, the builders had three-wire cable when they were doing the wiring

It can also be that your downstairs has these "double switches" so you can wire a chandelier to have half and half lights... or two chandeliers... or then the upstairs was done "later" and "cheaper"... They can be zeroed or then they were just put there while they were at it... so yes or maybe or no...

Those plug sockets are a new thing for new housing standards.. Pissed me off as then they come in three different plug types so they were always the wrong one...

annekmc · Post by **annekmc** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:03 pm

Always remember -

The LIVE brown bear
dances on the green/yellow EARTH
under the NEUTRAL blue sky

and you can't go wrong

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:41 pm

Except with pre 1970's houses with original wiring... purple, yellow, white... ehhh?

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:18 pm

TUKES (Turvatekniikan keskus) has made some electric safety booklets available for download in PDF format. They contain both safety information and illustrated instructions on the electrickery-related repair and installation tasks that an ordinary citizen is allowed to carry out in his home. (Sorry, there are no English versions; you have to make do with the Finnish ones):

Kodin sähköturvaopas, in particular, features illustrated instructions on installing a new ceiling light. These begin on page 13 (or page 7 in the internal PDF page numbering.) However, they only seem to cover the different types of plugs for ceiling lights, as if every home had already been equipped with the matching sockets!

Things get a bit more useful on the later pages, though – beginning on page 46 (24). On that and the following pages, there are instructions on installing such a socket – in case it is an old house that happens to lack them. No instructions are given on installing a ceiling light without a plug and a socket, however, so the message seems to be clear: those in the business of publishing instructional booklets on this topic no longer want people to use the old-fashioned “sugar lump” connectors (as they’re colloquially known in Finnish.)

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:23 pm

annekmc wrote:Always remember -

The LIVE brown bear
dances on the green/yellow EARTH
under the NEUTRAL blue sky

and you can't go wrong

Now, how was it... Bear LIVEs in the Big BLUE House... hmm EARTH.. hey that is usually BROWN... so that leaves GREEN as the neutral... right...

annekmc · Post by **annekmc** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:28 pm

sammy wrote:
annekmc wrote:Always remember -

The LIVE brown bear
dances on the green/yellow EARTH
under the NEUTRAL blue sky

and you can't go wrong
Now, how was it... Bear LIVEs in the Big BLUE House... hmm EARTH.. hey that is usually BROWN... so that leaves GREEN as the neutral... right...

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:58 am

Which leaves the black wire

This can either be the wire coming from the switch, or the earth in some older system.
Also in places without earth, it is possible that they used the blue (or brown) for both neutral and earth.

If you're not sure about the wiring, have someone check it first.
Doing it wrong can give a nasty spike, frying your pc if it is not protected by a high current thingy.

mCowboy · Post by **mCowboy** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:10 am

rinso wrote: Doing it wrong can give a nasty spike, frying your pc if it is not protected by a high current thingy.

Why would you wire a PC to a ceiling light outlet?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:11 am

Well, lights and outlets are under the same fuse, so if the fuse is a bit slow...

Post by **neil** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:49 am

mCowboy wrote:
rinso wrote: Doing it wrong can give a nasty spike, frying your pc if it is not protected by a high current thingy.
Why would you wire a PC to a ceiling light outlet?

Hank W. wrote:Well, lights and outlets are under the same fuse, so if the fuse is a bit slow...

What's a 'slow fuse'? So when you burn your toast it takes out the whole building?

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:01 am

Older houses were made with big tolerances, I've had my computer reboot when the bathroom light blew...

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:33 pm

Our house was renovated in the mid 80's.
The wiring looks like a rainbow. No two floors have the same system. (and it was done by licensed electricians

)
One time something went wrong (another "licensed" electrician) and three of my safety thingies blow.

Fuses are an old technique designed to protect life. Electronics have less tolerance for funny things in the electric current.

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:22 pm

Hank W. wrote:Well, lights and outlets are under the same fuse, so if the fuse is a bit slow...

Which is why the wise money has all the electronics in his PC corner behind good, big UPS.

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