Survival with a useless degree

[Pursuivant]

useless? how about woman studies and feng shui? if you have a BA in lingusitics, then a masters with say english philology with pedadgogy at the uni and you will have a useless degree you might get a tenured teaching position with. theoretically speaking. then if you have learned finnish on more than a theoretical level theres the translation department in kouvola.

[Mihaela]

Oh, Pursuivant, that was very helpful to me also, because I have almost the same useless (here) degree. I love it and hate it the same time...
Theoretically speaking, do they ever take someone to teach a foreign language at school if he is not a native speaker, but has the degree to teach that language?

[Pursuivant]

do they ever take someone to teach a foreign language at school if he is not a native speaker

and who exactly you think teaches english, german or french in a finnish school? look up any school staff lists. does Soili Peltonen Englanti, Ranska or Tuulikki Kaskenviita Englanti, ruotsi sound like frau messerschmitt to you? the thing is you have to be able to teach in finnish or in finnish style, and for that you need to go through the finnish pedagogy system to get a tenure. mind you though the teaching profession in finland is a bit like nursing - a very literary job requiring masters and minors and the pay is utter crap. like nursing been told this dates from the time it was a job for upper class women who could not find a man so they had nothing better to do, so like a missionary is expected to do the job out of devotion.

[Mihaela]

Yeah, my question was not right, but ok
It means no for me, because I will never speak Finnish so well to teach French in it, heh. Or at least not in the next 20 years.
Thanks anyway

[Pursuivant]

don't think the town is teeming with french teachers with the required degrees, and the language breakup was somewhere was it 80% english and the rest german, teach only some 2-3% french in the grade school, its more of a language you learn in college then, many high schools even don't offer it.

[Mihaela]

So to consider a master's in adult education? Because my degree is for primary and secondary school.
May be there would be other work for me also (like all the cleaning/hotel/kitchen jobs) , but I've always wanted to be a teacher, that's why I am insisting on that And here if the partner is not getting like 1000 Euro/month (which is pretty huge), you may die with the 150 -200 euro/month for a teacher ((

Ulvesang, sorry I took over your thread.

Pursuivant, thanks again.

[Pursuivant]

worry about what you are going to teach later, first worry about getting a masters in education. looks like you sit in finnish classes first the 1000 or 150-200 years

[finlandforumuser]

do they ever take someone to teach a foreign language at school if he is not a native speaker

and who exactly you think teaches english, german or french in a finnish school? look up any school staff lists. does Soili Peltonen Englanti, Ranska or Tuulikki Kaskenviita Englanti, ruotsi sound like frau messerschmitt to you? the thing is you have to be able to teach in finnish or in finnish style, and for that you need to go through the finnish pedagogy system to get a tenure.

I think you are wrong. It is quite apparent that native speaker will teach much better his language. Simply, there is no native speaking teacher is willing to reallocate to Kristiinankaupunki, which seems to be quite far from capital area, especially on such low salary as teacher's one with high tax. I believe this "Kristiinanseudun koulun" would be quite happy to hire English speaking person for the English classes, simply such not available. Of course, proof of the qualification such as experience, certificate and recommendations would require.

[Pursuivant]

Simply, there is no native speaking teacher is willing to reallocate

need then to find you one closer by, is kallio close enough teeming with native speaking foreigners that place,
Arima Heli, italia, Heiramo Teemu, ruotsi, saksa, Kairimo Inga-Maria, venäjä, ranska, Lensu Seija, ranska, espanja, Mannos Liisa, englanti, Niemelä Piia, saksa, englanti, ...

explain that with something else as entertaining, my end needs a laugh reallocated

proof of the qualification such as experience, certificate and recommendations

tenured teacher has to be qualified to teach. which here reads out as masters degree in the subject mainly teaching, a cum laude in a side subject, or then a masters in pedagogy, and the time spent at the teaching academy probably. so to be qualified to teach english one needs a masters degree in english literature to start with. not many native speakers wanting to teach languages sporting that feather from their arse. of course being unqualified teacher on a contract is another thing. and another payscale.

[Pursuivant]

how does one get a job in a field they aren't "educated" in? by it not being located in finland?

if you go ask the guys in SOL frocks mopping the floor they're all bloody brain surgeons

[Pursuivant]

and i am a bit on the autistic side in general. i'd be a great professor with an old tweed coat with elbow patches but i've given up on academia/education (preferably).

thats a pity as the dept of assyriology and egyptology are a blast (mummy fart splitting cuneiform tablets)... well, they do have something at the UH, but maybe something say business-oriented at the hanken or kaupis? lets say international cross-dressing management studies or whatever? one thing then would be theoretic semiotics and something say at HUT... and that'd get you into the tweedledum department of nokia probably... basically what you are aiming now with your work experience is management where you need to have the right place, right people, right skills that they want, and you'll be hired. so sit in the finnish classes and apply for any jobs that pertain to your experience. the masters degree doesn't automatically locate you, my mate has as his boss a master of theology and another is a theoretic nuclear physicist and they all work in some IT conglomerate. always said you get ufo's flying with their stuff no wonder. so hang in there. or if you want to get into IT start with something out of the open university like J2EE coding and wiggle in that way if thet floats your boat. you need the luck, network, niche equation to work.

[Tiwaz]

do they ever take someone to teach a foreign language at school if he is not a native speaker

and who exactly you think teaches english, german or french in a finnish school? look up any school staff lists. does Soili Peltonen Englanti, Ranska or Tuulikki Kaskenviita Englanti, ruotsi sound like frau messerschmitt to you? the thing is you have to be able to teach in finnish or in finnish style, and for that you need to go through the finnish pedagogy system to get a tenure.

I think you are wrong. It is quite apparent that native speaker will teach much better his language. Simply, there is no native speaking teacher is willing to reallocate to Kristiinankaupunki, which seems to be quite far from capital area, especially on such low salary as teacher's one with high tax. I believe this "Kristiinanseudun koulun" would be quite happy to hire English speaking person for the English classes, simply such not available. Of course, proof of the qualification such as experience, certificate and recommendations would require.

As qualifications question has been done with, let's also take another angle of approach on problem.

What good is teacher of english in Finland who can't explain to save his/her life what some word in english means to people who do not yet possess english skills on sufficient level?

Lower you go on level, more jobs there are (as every kid will go through certain amount of school but higher you get, less there will be students and thus need for techers). Of course there are people who do like Penny and go consult or similar teaching adults on business english or similar.

But that is not exactly source of endless wealth for infinite amount of people.

And on lower level, you need finnish. No school is going to hire teacher who cannot communicate with students.

[Karhunkoski]

What good is teacher of english in Finland who can't explain to save his/her life what some word in english means to people who do not yet possess english skills on sufficient level?

A very good point.

Perhaps you should go tell it to those who organise the työvoimatoimisto courses that "teach" Finnish to new immigrants in Finland. These courses are mostly taught in Finnish - yes, the grammar and words are all explained to the students in FINNISH, and they definitely do not yet posses Finnish skills on a sufficient level.....


I find it quite ironic that most of your posts include scathing remarks about how immigrants don't manage to learn fluent Finnish. You quickly disapprove of the "teaching of English in English", whilst at the same time criticise immigrants who haven't managed to learn when attending courses that "teach Finnish in Finnish"

[Mihaela]

What good is teacher of english in Finland who can't explain to save his/her life what some word in english means to people who do not yet possess english skills on sufficient level?

This reminded me of my first teacher in French when we were in classe preparatoire form one month and we could not communicate sufficiently The person could not speak almost any Bulgarian, so when we did not understand a word, he started making funny gestures to explain or drew things on the blackboard It was funny, but we learnt a lot, trying to communicate only on the language we were learning.

Anyway, thanks for all answers. Please don't fight, because of my questions, I don't feel ok to make you fight...

One more thing - are there private schools/kindergartens with languages? This could be an option?

[Karhunkoski]

Don't worry Mihaela, this is just "lively debate" (with no hard feelings), you'll get used to it on here