Employer screwing you over

[Rimi]

Hello all,

Who can be called (government agency or similar) if one's employer attempts to violate the work contract, cheat the employee out of his/her holiday pay, and other nasty things?

[blaugrau]

Trade union! Find out who's the shopsteward in your workplace, if there isn't any, contact the union directly.

[Rimi]

Yes, thank you. The question is for a friend who has been taken advantage of.

[blaugrau]

P.S. The Finnish word for shop steward is luottamusmies, if that helps. This is what their responsibilities are:

English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_steward
Finnish: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luottamusmies

[mrjimsfc]

Wait a minute! I thought all employers were supposed to screw the employees over. That's just a fact of life. The only outfit that can screw you over worse than the employer is the union.

[TampereOwl]

The Union should help you out, but can be a pain in the arse if you're a furriner. I've heard of different advice given to people calling and asking in English, and those asking in Finnish.

If the Union tell you the employer is entitled to do what they're doing, ask the local occupational health office for help. I forget what their name is in Finnish, but they can lean on the TU to do their job properly if you get are unfortunate enough to get advised by racists at the union.

[interleukin]

well most people don't pay to the union and still call them and complain as soon as something is wrong, so I can see why they would not always be so happy to have someone call who is a foreigner = probably someone who doesnt know the system and has never paid a penny to the union.

[TampereOwl]

If you haven't paid the union anything then don't call the elf n safety, they will only help Union members get what they deserve when the union fails to do its job. And the union has a habit of failing to do its job when foreigners ask for help, just ask the H&S people.

[blaugrau]

Hm, I think there's no point speculating whether or not they are foreigner-unfriendly, as we don't know which workplace it is (and what kind of luottamusmies) nor do we know what union is responsible in this case, nor do we know what the complaint in question is about.

If the problem in question is a violation of collective agreements on part of the employer, Finnish labour legislation applies and the union will be very interested in the issue, regardless of whether the worker is a union member or not, given that:

In some countries, such as Finland, collective agreements with enough support are universally applicable, in a particular field, regardless of union membership. Effectively, the universal collective agreement sets the minimum wages and other benefits, under which no employer may go with any employee, union member or not. Personal benefits can be given regardless. Contrast this with the U.S. labor regulations where in non right-to-work states all employees may be required by contract to join the majority union after employment, and then must be paid a uniform contract wage without variation.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining


I sure would think that they would probably strongly recommend that the person in question joins the union, if s/he isn't a member yet (which is advisable already for the unemployment money), but I don't see that their help will be necessarily conditional on that.

[TampereOwl]

I've been in exactly that situation, a union member, asked for help, got told lies by the union. I'm not saying this is typical, but it is my only interaction with Finnish trade unionism and the way to deal with it (if necessary) is to go to the H&S and ask them to bollock the union.

It's worth noting that there was at that time no luottomies in my company. I imagine things go a good deal smoother if you have someone to talk to face to face.

[Upphew]

If the problem in question is a violation of collective agreements on part of the employer, Finnish labour legislation applies and the union will be very interested in the issue, regardless of whether the worker is a union member or not

But luottamusmies only represents members of union, and in special cases all emplyees (YT negotiations).

Luottamusmiehen tehtävät

Luottamusmies käy työntekijöiden edustajana neuvotteluja työnantajan kanssa työntekijöiden eduista, työehtosopimuksen soveltamisesta ja työpaikan olosuhteiden kehittämisestä. Luottamusmies ratkoo myös kaikenlaisia esille tulevia erimielisyyksiä työnantajan kanssa.

Luottamusmies

* edustaa työpaikalla ammattiliittoa ja sen jäseniä
* valvoo ja soveltaa työehtosopimuksen ja työlainsäädännön toteutumista työpaikalla
* neuvottelee kollektiivisesti työsuhdeasioista työnantajan kanssa
* auttaa ja neuvoo yksittäisiä jäseniä työsuhdekysymyksissä.

Jos sinulla on esimiehesi tai työnantajasi kanssa erimielisyys, jota et itse kykene tai osaa ratkaista, kannattaa kääntyä luottamusmiehen puoleen. Jos ongelmat eivät ratkea työpaikan omin voimin, luottamusmies voi ottaa yhteyttä ammattiliittoon, josta löytyy työsuhde- ja lakipalveluita. Jos työpaikallasi ei ole luottamusmiestä, voit ottaa suoraan yhteyttä omaan liittoosi.
http://www.kitkatta.net/valmis/kiikari/luottamus.html

When luottamusmies represents all union members at that place and negotiates (points 1 and 3) then I'd suspect that not rushing to help non union member might be looked as positive thing by employer -> luottamusmies has better position when he tries to help members of union.

[CatNip]

Hi,

You can contact your area work safety office, see contacts at http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/yhteystiedot/
This is an official work safety authority in Finland.
See some English info at http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/workingfinland

[TampereOwl]

Hi,

You can contact your area work safety office, see contacts at http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/yhteystiedot/
This is an official work safety authority in Finland.
See some English info at http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/workingfinland

those are the guys. they do very good things.

[blaugrau]

But isnt this organisation in charge only of a very specific set of problems, namely, health and saftey issues? Wasn't the OP's concern problems with the employment contract? I don't see how that organisation will be able to help, especially because (according to their own website):

The employer and employee organisations in an industrial sector monitor their members’ rights and benefits in employment relationships. For example, the trade union of organised employees takes care for the employees’ interests in so far as these concern wage terms and other conditions and rights laid down in the collective agreement. The OSH [Occupational health and safety]authorities monitor compliance with the occupational safety and health provisions that govern the terms of employment but they do not represent the interests of the parties to an employment relationship.

And anyway, where's the guarantee that they're not also foreigner-unfriendly? (I'm not saying that they are, but I think the remark about the union being potentially foreigner-unfriendly would have to extend to this organisation too, which in itself renders the whole racism issue here pretty empty, imo)

[TampereOwl]

Well, y'know, just going on my experiences:

problem with contract, not TES-compliant, union lied and said it was

went to työsuojelu, showed contract, explained union's inaction

työsuojelu bollocked union, union shifted arse, työsuojelu asked employer to see all contracts and scared them into putting it right for everyone


I think there is a large degree of overlap between H&S violations and contract violations, and so the two work together to a large extent. Violation of a TES would probably be a good indication that the company is also a potential H&S offender, and if they are looking for somewhere to randomly inspect it is good information to have.