Which language is closest to English?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:45 pm

So Estonia is supposedly the closest language to Finnish (or one of the closest), Finns and Estonias can sorta communicate with each other using their native languages.

So which language is closest to English? Swedish looks damn near close. Oh, and yes, believe it or not, American English and British English are indeed the same language.

**Sponsor:**

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:53 pm

Phil wrote:Oh, and yes, believe it or not, American English and British English are indeed the same language.

So that nipped that one in the bud then!

Andrew_S · Post by **Andrew_S** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:22 pm

Frisian.

You've a damn sight better chance of understanding it if you know Dutch, though!

Family tree:
http://softrat.home.mindspring.com/germanic.html

Niall Shaky · Post by **Niall Shaky** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:46 am

I have a hard time deciding whether dutch or danish is closer to english.

Tapani · Post by **Tapani** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:03 am

Niall Shaky wrote:I have a hard time deciding whether dutch or danish is closer to english.

Dutch of course, I mean we might spit in your face but at least we do not keep a potato field hidden in our throat

Samppa · Post by **Samppa** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:48 pm

French, I guess. They don't sound alike but have a lot in common. If I am not mistaken, English is a "relatively young" (about a thousand years old) language developed from a mixture of French, local dialects (Celtic?) and language of Anglo-Saxons (Germanic language).

If you read "Three Mushketeers".. There's an episode in the book where d'Artanian complains that English people speak "broken" French.

Niall Shaky · Post by **Niall Shaky** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:15 am

Samppa wrote:French, I guess. They don't sound alike but have a lot in common. If I am not mistaken, English is a "relatively young" (about a thousand years old) language developed from a mixture of French, local dialects (Celtic?) and language of Anglo-Saxons (Germanic language).

I think that's fairly accurate.

Here's my (probably grossly innaccurate) story of the English language.

First: Celtic languages (not dialects), those people displaced as the Angles moved in from southern Denmark/Northern Germany. Then the Romans arrive bringing some Latin flavour. Then the Vikings come, bringing Norse/Danish.

A couple of Christmasses ago there was an animated adaption of Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" on telly in the original Old English. People didn't say "the house", but rather "huset" like in Danish.

But the French influence is the latest (post 1066), therefore the least profound in everyday speech. For a long time it was the language of aristocracy, with the hoi paloi speaking Old English. Quite often if we have two synonyms then the "French" one is the fancier one. The Germanic one is the coarser one: goes back to how the split was between nobility and commoners.

I've probably mangled this "story of English" quite badly, so I apologise to anyone who specialises in this area!

I recommend "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson, which is all about the English language.

Samppa wrote: If you read "Three Mushketeers".. There's an episode in the book where d'Artanian complains that English people speak "broken" French.

I think that's more a slight on the English as a race, 'too stupid to speak good French', rather than an indication that the languages were still similar then. This is after-all post Shakespeare. Probably about that time French was the World Language, so if an international traveller didn't speak it well, then they would be open to ridicule.

BAT · Post by **BAT** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:20 pm

It's not bad Niall. I have a book on the subject, but studied it years ago and can't remember all the details myself. You have all of the major factors there in any case.

It really is amazing how English sucks up words from other languages. Here is one table from an Internet page.

Table 1: Borrowed Words Languages
Words

African- languages Banana, raffia, okra, samba, mumbo jumbo, tsetse fly, cola, chimpanzee, voodoo, yam
Arabic- Alchemy, almanac, cotton, orange, saffron, sugar, syrup
French- Ballet, croissant, gentle, genteel, language, village, voyage
Greek- Acronym, chlorine, kudos, phone, telegram, xylophone
Hindi- Caste, bazaar
Inuit- (Eskimos) Husky, kayak, mukluk, igloo, malamute, parka
Italian -Artichoke, balcony, carnival, cartoon, casino, ghetto, lagoon, lava, miniature, replica, scope, studio, torso, umbrella, vendetta
Latin -Anchor, area, butter, chalk, kettle, mint, orbit, pepper, pound, sack, street, urban, wall
Old Norse -Cake, ugly, wrong, want, gale, leg, skill, window, dirt, anger, hit, call, bag, low, fellow, happy, get, skin, stack, sky, tight, sister, take, wing, egg
Polynesian- Taboo
Russian- Blintzes, borscht, polka, vodka
Spanish- Adobe, bronco, canyon, lasso, patio, ranch, rodeo, stampede, vamoose

From - http://cls.coe.utk.edu/lpm/esltoolkit/01history.html

Also there is a huge list of borrowed words from many different languages here - http://www.krysstal.com/borrow.html

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:49 pm

I think you got it right, Niall. One of the more interesting things (to me anyway) is how the Germanic/French words relate to food. Usually the name for the animal and the meat are the same, but:

pig meat = pork
deer meat = venison
sheep meat = mutton
cow meat = beef
calf meat = veal

The words for the animals are Germanic origin, but the names of the food are French. French-speaking nobles didn't really care what the peasants called the animal they were eating.

A lot of common words like blood, tooth, etc. are Germanic but anything to do with power, authority and status are French. This includes all the military ranks and almost all words to do with military organization (including many of the commands). What would Bush do if only he knew?

Basically, English kept it's Germanic grammar but absorbed a lot of French words. There's a term in linguistics for when this happens, but I forgot what it's called.

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:53 pm

One of those websites mentions Finnish as being the source for "sauna." Are there any other words? I've heard that Finns coined the term "Molotov cocktail." It's believable, but I've never had it confirmed.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:55 pm

OK, so how does Dutch & French fit in - closer or further?

Swedish & English comparison:

Jag är de ledare av båtbyggarna.
I am the leader of boatbuilders.

Jag ridder min häst och lever i min hus.
I ride my horse and live in my house.

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:05 pm

Hank W. wrote:OK, so how does Dutch & French fit in - closer or further?

Swedish & English comparison:

Jag är de ledare av båtbyggarna.
I am the leader of boatbuilders.

Jag ridder min häst och lever i min hus.
I ride my horse and live in my house.

I'm not an expert in this area, but as I understand it, more common words (meaning words used by a layman or a worker) like you used would be Germanic. But when you talk about, "the company will advance and occupy the enemy's position and force a surrender," all of those words except "the," "a," "and" and "will" are of French origin.

Majava · Post by **Majava** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:28 pm

From the Oxford Guide to the English Language

It started out as a collection of Germanic dialects, brought by marauding tribes to islands that were already inhabited by Celtic speakers - the ancestors of the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and the Cornish- and that had undergone and benefited from the earlier occupation by the Romans.

These Germanic dialects had affinities with the speech of related tribes in what is now Germany, the Netherlands, and Scandinavia. At the time of the migrations all the dialects were probably mutually intelligible.

But now I would say Frisian is closer to English than Dutch...

Fries-----English-----Dutch
kaai-----key-----sleutel
tsiis-----cheese-----kaas
swiet-----sweet-----zoet
wiet-----wet-----nat
twa skiep-----two sheep-----twee schapen

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:37 pm

Basically, English is a mix of a lot of languages, which is one of the reasons it's so hard to spell.

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:41 pm

Majava wrote:From the Oxford Guide to the English Language

It started out as a collection of Germanic dialects, brought by marauding tribes to islands that were already inhabited by Celtic speakers - the ancestors of the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and the Cornish- and that had undergone and benefited from the earlier occupation by the Romans.

These Germanic dialects had affinities with the speech of related tribes in what is now Germany, the Netherlands, and Scandinavia. At the time of the migrations all the dialects were probably mutually intelligible.

That is how it started out. The French influence came later.

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