Foreigners in the finnish workplace

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:49 am

I'm a journalist writing a story on foreigners in the Finnish workplace for Helsinki times, and I'd like some quotes!

Firstly, do you feel that you are treated equally with your Finnish colleagues?

Secondly, do you feel that you are respected or valued at work?

Lastly, would you say that your Finnish bosses are able to work effectively with non-Finnish staff?

Many thanks!

Your comments will be anonymous - no workplaces or (real) names will be used, but please tell us your profession. i.e. English teacher, bus driver, engineer.

**Sponsor:**

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:25 pm

> Firstly, do you feel that you are treated equally with your Finnish colleagues?

yes

> Secondly, do you feel that you are respected or valued at work?

Yes

> Lastly, would you say that your Finnish bosses are able to work effectively with non-Finnish staff?

Yes.

But the question is a bit one sided, isn't it? It takes two to tango: "would you say that non-Finnish staff are able to work effectively with Finnish bosses?"

I've had people of many nationalities work for me and worked for many nationalities (I'm not Finnish), in the grand scheme of things the Finns are reasonably easy to deal with...

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:04 pm

Thanks Mook, that's good to hear.

I certainly agree that it takes two to tango, but there are clearly issues in some Finnish companies which pay lip service to being international, while still pursuing the 'no communication, no feedback' model more common to Finnish companies. While I think that also means international workers learn not to take 0 communication as a personal insult, I also think Finnish managers need to adapt to the needs of an international staff.

EP · Post by EP » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:14 pm

'no communication, no feedback' model

Well, that is the Finnish model, you have done everything right in your job. When you get feedback you can be sure that you have messed up. No feedback = good.

silk · Post by **silk** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:26 pm

Soda 3.0 wrote: I certainly agree that it takes two to tango, but there are clearly issues in some Finnish companies which pay lip service to being international, while still pursuing the 'no communication, no feedback' model more common to Finnish companies. While I think that also means international workers learn not to take 0 communication as a personal insult, I also think Finnish managers need to adapt to the needs of an international staff.

Sounds like you have already made up your mind on how the story will be written and you are looking for quotes to support your story. Not exactly objective journalism.

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:33 pm

Silk -

You're invited to present your own experiences and opinions here, and I'll certainly use a cross section of opinions.

Alternatively you can just whine about my opinions.

Everyone has experiences, but few of us can say we know fore sure what life is like in any one of a thousand other companies. That's why I'm curious to here other peoples thoughts.

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:39 pm

I with Silk in that it sounds like you have made up your opinion, and now you just want some quotes to back it up. You may have plans to get all the different views into your article, but you certainly managed to fail miserably presenting that when writing your first post.

EP · Post by EP » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:44 pm

treated equally with your Finnish colleagues

Finnish managers need to adapt to the needs of an international staff

Those two sentences sort of contradict each other.

pierrot · Post by **pierrot** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:17 pm

silk wrote:
Soda 3.0 wrote: I certainly agree that it takes two to tango, but there are clearly issues in some Finnish companies which pay lip service to being international, while still pursuing the 'no communication, no feedback' model more common to Finnish companies. While I think that also means international workers learn not to take 0 communication as a personal insult, I also think Finnish managers need to adapt to the needs of an international staff.
Sounds like you have already made up your mind on how the story will be written and you are looking for quotes to support your story. Not exactly objective journalism.

Oh come on, it's the same guys that make 6 degrees, so good luck looking for neutral, objective articles.

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:23 pm

EP -

Really? Why do you say that?

I don't see any contradiction between a Finnish manager adopting slightly different methods of communication or feedback methods with an American workers than he'd use with a Finnish worker, and treating workers equally. I would have thought most managers DO adopt different methods with different staff - that doesn't mean there is any form of bias.

Peirrot -

Most media houses have more than one publication. That doesn't mean "it's the same guys", nor does it mean the publications have the same profile.

If possible, can we stick on track here?

If people think the artice is going to be biased - now is your chance to correct that bias with some interesting comments and experiences of your own.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:58 pm

Soda 3.0 wrote:I would have thought most managers DO adopt different methods with different staff - that doesn't mean there is any form of bias.

Unless:
- the superior-subordinate relationship doesn't work and
- the superior happens to be Finnish and the subordinate foreign and
- it's written up in Helsinki Times or 6 degrees

Now why don't you run off and reform your questions so that they're positive (or at least neutral). I about the write that it wouldn't be news, but then we could get the headline:

"Helsinki Times manages to write an article where it doesn't criticise unflexible Finns"

Remember, "when in Rome, do as the Romans", if you choose to live here then you have to fit in...

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:40 pm

You have to love the way people jump to these wild assumptions - it's a shame that 'wild assumptions' isn't the topic of my story.

We're actually planning to run a series of stories on different aspect of worklife in Finland, and one issue we thought might be interesting to look at was how foreigners who have jobs here feel about their status in the company, the way they are treated, and so forth. I have no idea where the story will be largely positive or negative - though my approach is usually to feature both points of view to some extent.

Is that biased, subjective, based on preconceived ideas, or inherently offensive?

Pesonally, I think not - but I think the one we do see here is a real sentivity about this kind of topic. Which I'm happy about, of course.

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:51 pm

silk wrote: Sounds like you have already made up your mind on how the story will be written and you are looking for quotes to support your story.

And there you have "the 6 Degrees" in a convenient nutshell. The agenda is pre-decided and the articles are briefed out to fit. Some of the journalists are aware of this opinion, so there must be some fact behind it.

aamm · Post by **aamm** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:35 pm

the preface: i work on a pheasant farm in lohja with my very soon to be father-in-law. this will be my second season. so in response to the questions.
1-yes
2-very much so
3-communication is as good as it gets. iäve had no formal language training, but everyday i understand him a little more and with patience and hand gestures (and laughing) we can get pretty far

Soda 3.0 · Post by **Soda 3.0** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Karhunkoski wrote:
And there you have "the 6 Degrees" in a convenient nutshell. The agenda is pre-decided and the articles are briefed out to fit. Some of the journalists are aware of this opinion, so there must be some fact behind it.

Hilarious! Wonderful stuff! You forget to mention that we are also owned by a secret Jewish sect bent on global domination.

It's very useful for me to know this because I usually come up with my own ideas, and didn't know I was supposed to be fitting them into an 'agenda'!

Aamm -

Excellent, that's great to hear, and thanks for answering. I imagine yours will also be the only response we get from the pheasant farm sector!

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