Integration Plan Opinion

[CAD_Guy]

Just started Finnish classes. I can honestly say I don't like them. I think they move way too fast and are not very effective, at least the one I'm taking. To give you an idea I'm only on my second week and we're doing some complex grammar. Keep in mind I have a very limited vocabulary and I'm learning words that I have no idea what they mean. My wife who teaches English to foreigners is rather shocked at the level of stuff I'm learning.

Sure I'm learning some stuff but I'm finding that I get lost a lot. As well in my particular lessons there are people of varying levels of understanding and I often feel rather dumb. I'm at real basic level Finnish and there are some people who have been in Finland for three years and other who have studied elsewhere. Since no test was used to place people we have this mix.

Of course if I had the choice I would go to a Finnish-English class that way I would probably learn more, this full Finnish integration stuff is difficult, especially in my situation where some catch on quickly and others are left somewhat dumbfounded.

Personally I rather be working and learning in a work environment. I think I would learn Finnish for my particular field faster as I would need to. As it is all I'm doing is getting about 25-50% information from the course and nothing that is useful in a work environment. The six week course I'm taking will probably provide semi survival Finnish, if I'm lucky.

[luckykitty]

Just started Finnish classes. I can honestly say I don't like them. I think they move way too fast and are not very effective, at least the one I'm taking. To give you an idea I'm only on my second week and we're doing some complex grammar. Keep in mind I have a very limited vocabulary and I'm learning words that I have no idea what they mean. My wife who teaches English to foreigners is rather shocked at the level of stuff I'm learning.

Sure I'm learning some stuff but I'm finding that I get lost a lot. As well in my particular lessons there are people of varying levels of understanding and I often feel rather dumb. I'm at real basic level Finnish and there are some people who have been in Finland for three years and other who have studied elsewhere. Since no test was used to place people we have this mix.

Of course if I had the choice I would go to a Finnish-English class that way I would probably learn more, this full Finnish integration stuff is difficult, especially in my situation where some catch on quickly and others are left somewhat dumbfounded.

Personally I rather be working and learning in a work environment. I think I would learn Finnish for my particular field faster as I would need to. As it is all I'm doing is getting about 25-50% information from the course and nothing that is useful in a work environment. The six week course I'm taking will probably provide semi survival Finnish, if I'm lucky.

Welcome to Finland. Yeah Finnish grammar is pretty complicated, or at least alot of stuff to remember. Finns and locals here take it for granted because they already speak the language, but it adds on a lot of stuff we don't really have in English, so it feels really complicated. But I think you will survive. I think the important thing is to have Finnish friends, or just pay attention to what people say everyday on the street, in the tram, etc. I think you pick up alot by proxy. The rest is just grammar, and eventually you pick up on that too. There should be a test for you soon, i think they should send you a letter for some kind of test. But since you just got here, you probably wouldn't pass a full on Finnish test, even if it had multichoice in some parts.

Theres some books in the library though, if you need some english-finnish grammar explaination. The library in Pasila has a lot of language learning textbooks. There is maybe work related finnish courses? depends what kind of occupation you have.

[CAD_Guy]

Cad Guy, thank you for your reply, so can I ask where you come from and where do u live in Finland?

I'm from Australia and Canada. I'm currently living in Kotka cause we couldn't find anything in Helsinki that was reasonable and my wife's family lives here. Rent is pretty cheap. Unfortunately employment is a bit difficult. There's some opportunities but I'm up against Finnish people.

This six week course I'm taking doesn't make much sense to me, it appears they just created it to give us foreigners something to do.

I wish people can understand that we foreigners want to go to that course to learn finnish and get a job so we wont depend on Kela nor anything like that. I understand that there are foreigners that seem to be quite happy taking finnish classes for years so they can get money, but I really believe those are few cases.

I have no desire to be on Kela or stay in courses for years on end. My industry (engineering) usually accepts English speakers pretty easily the problem I have at the moment is that there were many lay-offs in the industry so I'm up against Finns any time I apply for a job.

Welcome to Finland. Yeah Finnish grammar is pretty complicated, or at least alot of stuff to remember. Finns and locals here take it for granted because they already speak the language, but it adds on a lot of stuff we don't really have in English, so it feels really complicated. But I think you will survive. I think the important thing is to have Finnish friends, or just pay attention to what people say everyday on the street, in the tram, etc. I think you pick up alot by proxy. The rest is just grammar, and eventually you pick up on that too. There should be a test for you soon, i think they should send you a letter for some kind of test. But since you just got here, you probably wouldn't pass a full on Finnish test, even if it had multichoice in some parts.

Theres some books in the library though, if you need some english-finnish grammar explaination. The library in Pasila has a lot of language learning textbooks. There is maybe work related finnish courses? depends what kind of occupation you have.

A funny thing I'm about to say is I'm not finding the grammar difficult per say, I sort of get it (though some is bizarre). What is difficult however is not having a vocabulary. What's the point of saying something if I don't know what it means? Also not living in Helsinki but in a small town becomes difficult to make connections with people. We have my wife's family here which helps but my wife isn't taking Finnish lessons, she doesn't speak Finnish either so it's not like we can hold much of a conversation between us or with her family. I'm not in an easy situation.

I do have a few books as well. It's difficult to want to study now with the summer here. Wish I didn't have to take this dumb course now, bad timing.

However I was told today that the 'real' classes start at the end of August and are longer. Whether there's a basic class or not I don't know but that's what I need. I don't know if I will get a test or not. I plan to talk to the unemployment office and see what they have to say and to complain a bit about this course. Whether they care or not is a different story.

[CAD_Guy]

CAD Guy, when I mentioned about foreigners depending on KELA and wanting to stay years in finnish classes, I really did not say that it is your case, so I am sorry if sounded like that.
I was exactly showing the opposite, that as I, you are also interested on learning finnish and finding a job, so we are not like those other foreigners that see this as good opportunity to make money.

I'm not that touchy, sorry if I came off that way. Allow me to explain.

Learning Finnish is difficult in any situation but I find it's very difficult in my current course where all explanation is done in Finnish. I don't find it useful to be honest, especially when the class is mixed with different levels of understanding. If this is the best they can do I'm at a loss to know how I'm ever going to learn Finnish. I honestly need to start from scratch again as the only thing I've picked up from this course so far is numbers and how to say I only speak a little Finnish. Useful but you can't hold a conversation.

Also I've been waiting to get into Finnish classes since I got here (December 2009) and I end up taking some pointless crash course, it's kind of disappointing. Sad part is that there are people in my course who have been here longer than me feeling the same way.

My statement was more meant to indicate that I have no desire to keeping taking Finnish courses for years on end (as that's how long it's going to take me to learn it seems). I rather be working and learning the language I need on the job. This makes more sense to me. Also learning formal Finnish, which most Finns don't use is rather pointless I think. Just from what I hear I can tell they are not speaking what I am learning. Maybe short cuts come in time but since this is a crash course why not learn the short cuts from the start?

[ChristopherCulver]

"Just from what I hear I can tell they are not speaking what I am learning. Maybe short cuts come in time but since this is a crash course why not learn the short cuts from the start?"

It's much easier for students to derive the spoken language from the written language than vice versa. If you know the written language, you generally need to apply a few phonological rules and voila you have the right spoken form. That's why courses are typically based on kirjakieli for at least two academic terms before then solidifying a command of puhekieli. From the opposite direction, i.e. knowing only the spoken language, then it would be more difficult to grasp the written language.

Understanding the literary language is important. I've met numerous Finns here who grew up abroad and moved back in adulthood, and though they speak decent puhekieli, their lack of knowledge of the written language keeps them in crappy jobs and frustration with officialdom.

[CAD_Guy]

It's much easier for students to derive the spoken language from the written language than vice versa. If you know the written language, you generally need to apply a few phonological rules and voila you have the right spoken form. That's why courses are typically based on kirjakieli for at least two academic terms before then solidifying a command of puhekieli. From the opposite direction, i.e. knowing only the spoken language, then it would be more difficult to grasp the written language.

Understanding the literary language is important. I've met numerous Finns here who grew up abroad and moved back in adulthood, and though they speak decent puhekieli, their lack of knowledge of the written language keeps them in crappy jobs and frustration with officialdom.

I don't disagree with you at all. My issue is that I am having problems understanding simply because the whole tuition is in Finnish. I just bought my text book (we had to wait for it to be in stock) by page 10 it's already using language that I have no idea what it means. The teacher doesn't really explain things that well (remember Finnish only) and it's up to me to search my dictionary to make sense of what's going on (not that I always have time to do so). To say the least it's not really the way I learn or the way I think I should be learning. I don't like to just see words, try to speak them and then move onto the next sentence. What exactly am I learning? If I don't understand the meaning of the sentence what have I learnt? This is my issue.

Add this to my other issues of having different levels of understanding in my class and you see the problem I have. Is there better classes than this or this typical?