Engineering student thinking of moving

[Jorge Juan]

Hello everyone! I am a 23 year old spanish student who is about to get his bachelor in Electronics engineering.

For a long time I've always felt atracted to Scandinavia for reasons I can't really explain, and have also felt that Spain is not a place for me. This, coupled with the fact that the economy here is absolutely terrible, made me make the decision to look elsewhere for a place to live and work. The first step I took was to go abroad for a year with an Erasmus grant, but because my engineering school had no opportunities for Scandinavia, I decided to go to Germany. I saw that the job opportunities are great and a master's degree there would be cheaper and better quality, but I also found that the country itself didn't seem like a great place for me to live and that, if I wanted a job, I had to speak really good german from the very beginning.

While being there, I also met a group of finnish students who became really good friends with me. I became so attached to them that my interest in Scandinavia became bigger, so I travelled to Finland with them and stayed there last February for three weeks: I absolutely loved it. I loved the character of everyone I met, and even things like the weather (which I was supposed to hate) had a charming and outlandish character that really brought me into it. I went back for ten days to celebrate Juhannus and it was also great (better than out own Juhannus here in Spain, anyway ).

I expect to get my degree no later than next June, and my expectations for the following time are to move out of Spain no matter what, so I'm considering all of my possibilities and the most atractive one is, by far, Finland. I am aware of the fact that I know very little of the country, so I would be happy to accept at least some kind of intership (4-6 month duration or so) that would let me experience real life there and make a more meditated decision about it.

So that's why I am here! There's still a lot I have to do until I can make anything of this happen, but I also thought it would be sensible to start looking for useful information and get some people who are in the same situation I am (or even locals who would be happy to lend a hand )

Having explained my situation (sorry for the long post) I would like to start with a very important question:

- My degree grants me skills in both telecommunications and computing, how are the opportunities in Finland for my profile? Consider a foreigner with no experience, fluent english and spanish and no finnish but willingness to learnt it (and, according to every finnish person I met, I seem to be good at it )

Regarding the language, the finns I met told me that with high education I could find some offers that wouldn't require me to speak good finnish form the beginning, how accurate is this assesment?

Thanks for reading!

[rinso]

The economic situation in Finland is better than in Spain. So are the chances of finding a job.
But as a non-lingo foreigner without work experience you are handicapped.
IT is indeed a field where non-Finnish speakers are over represented. But after the mass lay-offs of Nokia a lot of experienced Finnish it-ers are on the market.
And with your foreign bachelor degree you have to compete with Finnish master degrees.

In short; it is possible to find a job, but you have to be very lucky (or have the right contacts).

[Upphew]

And with your foreign bachelor degree you have to compete with Finnish master degrees.

Or Finnish bachelors. And Employers are more likely to know what it has eaten than foreign one.

[cors187]

In short; it is possible to find a job, but you have to be very lucky (or have the right contacts).

Or just plain better, nothing like having a money making immigrant in your pocket.

[Ninja]

I'm an American living here recently and I'll give you some general info;

- Economy

I think Finland has a reputation for doing pretty well generally but overall I think they're dealing with their own problems and coming from the US it's not even close to the same in terms of diversity and employment opportunity, so unless you've got a job lined up and are going to work in a major city that has the necessity for your particular experience/education that is needed, chances are someone else already has the same qualifications or higher...there just doesn't seem like a lot of employment opportunities here from my impressions. If you walk around you don't necessarily see a ton of office buildings with thousands of employees, it's still pretty small and localized.

- Language barrier

Although many young people speak English, it's still generally Finnish that is used and they definitely take their language skills seriously and expect fluency in it as a whole in their workforce (generally speaking if you're going to interact with Finnish people)...I have spoken to some other expats who have been here for a number of years and either struggle with the education part of it or their fluency in Finnish is not up to par which make it difficult for them to get a job, realize that it can take quite a number of years to assimilate...it's not just a two or three year kind of thing unless like i said you got something lined up already before you come here.

On top of that, people here know Swedish, English, Finnish and maybe German or Russian, etc..and you speak Spanish which nobody speaks, and English that it seems mainly only younger people speak, the old people will just look at you like you're crazy and probably be a bit uncomfortable with you if they had to interact with you.

- Not a social/chatty culture

It's one thing to talk with friends or people you already know, but with strangers or people you've just met it's a bit difficult to network and create connections since the culture is reserved and almost fearful of outsiders, they don't give a lot of non-verbal feedback so it's hard to feel them out..they also get a bit defensive and suspicious of overly friendly/talkative people whom they don't know (unless drunk)...which is a natural thing to do when you're trying to get to know someone from where I'm from, but here there is an etiquette of personal space and privacy, that you have to be careful not to cross, you just don't start chatting strangers up...I'm still working on where the magic button is but It can leave you feeling a bit like a fool and wondering if you scared someone being a little too much than what they're used to, it's also not a very expressive culture...but they'll answer a questions honestly/directly if you ask them, otherwise it's just not very appropriate of them to do, neither is small talk...you'll see people sitting at a table together out at a bar or restaurant and they might be sitting there saying absolutely nothing to each other...but that's not awkward for them, it's just normal.

With that being said they're very nice people, it's just a strange dynamic to adjust to and seems hot and cold at times.

So just keep those things in mind...it's not like you can just pop on over and land a job immediately...unless you've got the qualification for it, so I would say try and reach out and see what job opportunities are available....and you also need some kind of visa to actually work and live here (I'm assuming that, I don't know how it works since you're from Spain, probably different than being from the U.S.)

Bachelors degree isn't necessarily higher education and you don't have any experience, that's an education but a Masters or PHD is more of something of value these days, but depending on the sector you have your education in...like I said, they might not have much use for it here...I don't know a lot about it myself but it's hard to find information on Finland since it's not exactly a number one destination to move to for the sake of employment opportunity, that I've heard anyway.

[gfunho]

Your best chance might be to enter a Master program in one of the finnish universities. You need some money to get by while you study, but during the master you might get some internship to work in one of the university departments.

Admissions are usually applied in January, so have a look at them, you have some time.

The one that I know better, the University of Oulu has Masters in wireless communications, computer vision and signal processing, ubiquitous computing and biomedical engineering. All of them are related to your field.

[Jorge Juan]

Is it hard to get an intership while studying a master? I have friends who could help me with the university related stuff, they already know of some interesting master's in english, but it would be imperative to have some income source.

If I could arrange that, then studying a master would be even better than jumping straight into a job, I could improve my CV, learn some finnish and make some contacts before getting the job

[gfunho]

Is it hard to get an intership while studying a master? I have friends who could help me with the university related stuff, they already know of some interesting master's in english, but it would be imperative to have some income source.

It is not impossible, but during the first year at least, you will not have the proper contacts/knowledge to get it.
Even after that, there is no guarantee that you will ever get one, since there is no compulsory placement/internship in the master program.

You need to perform good in the courses, try to make contacts and offer your skills that might be suitable for the research interests/projects of the teachers and professors. If they have funding and you are (very) good, they might offer you something.

So, if having income from day one is an imperative to you, then studying might not work.
Moving to a place without some money to support yourself is a very hard thing to do and probably not very wise either.

[Flossy1978]

And if you want to be nit picky.... Finnish people aren't actually Scandinavian, so I've been told by Finns. The people of Finland come from different origins than people of Sweden, Norway etc....

Sorry.... if that bothers you.

It'll be a hard thing to do to move here and expect to find a job. Really hard. The reality of the situation is more and more people are being laid off daily. Just keep that in mind when you do come.

[browndude]

As flossy1978 mentioned, Finland is not technically part of Scandinavia. It is however a Nordic nation.

[cors187]

You need to perform good in the courses, try to make contacts and offer your skills that might be suitable for the research interests/projects of the teachers and professors

That sound even harder than getting a real job.

[Liam1]

One point that is often overlooked by economic migrants is the size of Finland. To the OP it has a population half the size of Portugal!

I sort of understand that it appears appealing to move as the Finns learnt their lesson (and were not helped like they are expected to help others) during their own financial crisis in the early 1990's. However, whilst Finland is not suffering as much directly from the financial crisis, it does suffer indirectly as Finland is an export driven economy, so poor EU = poorer Finnish growth.

Therefore, with a mediocre economic performance, and a very well qualified local workforce, opportunities are slim. Also If my Co is anything to go by, internships are often taken by local masters undergraduates as there are links between the uni and the local employer - therefore you may need to get enrolled with a well connected uni to increase your chances.

Back to my original point - all of this may mean that only 1% of employers is willing to take a risk on a non Finnish graduate and this does not translate to 100s or 1000s like in economies the size of UK or Germany it will be more a handful of lucky ones.

But maybe you can be one of the gifted handful!