Hyvää payvää from Mexico again.

[meksikosuomen]

Hello Finland dwellers,,, as you can read in my signature, i like so much Suomi,,((strange for somebody that have never been in there no??))) and im planning to make a trip maybe next year,,. But i would like to live in there in the future, yeah you can say im a weird, but i have that strange dream since many years ago, i ll explain you my reasons another day, (((off course, if you are enough interested to read it. )))

After taking a look around the forum, i still have some doubts about gettin a chance to live in finland so,, i have these questions:


- Lets suposse that i arrive to Helsinki, with enough money to survive, and with the conviction to get a work and the legal residence. Can i just visit the embassy and say?? """Hello, now that im in here, i would like to get the legal residence""" and if i do that,, will they kick my ass and send me back to my tropical place??

- the next step, if im lucky enough to get the residence, is finding a job,, and one more time,, elevate prays to heaven and waiting some weeks and maybe months, so my question is,, how many money do i need to survive with a very basic way of life in Finland?,,or asking it in another way,, how many money do you spend daily having a very simple way of life in finland,? is Helsinki the most expensive city?

I will keep reading as much as possible in the forum, but i will be so very thankful with any kind of help, tip or what ever you think could be helpful for me. kiitos ,, i will keep in touch.

[Hank W.]

You sent at the border back to the tropical paradise is high on the probability list so don't even joke about it. Getting legally to the USA or Canada is I think easier than to Finland, so if you know the paperwork required - it all works the same way. You have to have a job before getting a work permit and before anyone giving you a job you need to have a work permit because nobody is going to hire you if they have to wait for 6 months. Then again, what work can you do that can be proven a Finnish person or anyone in the EU is unable to do? And on top - how good is your Finnish??

I'd say the only way - you're 23 - is to get into an university - either one in Mexico that has some sort of exchange program or then apply straight to Finland... which is not easy necessarily.

Unless you have a hot blonde syndrome, you need to find one in Mexico. Ah, I'd give anything to be in Cozumel right now... even the rain is warm.

On the "survival" money, I'd say they expect 100 e/ day here at the border.

[mookoo]

Hopefully Hank hasn't left you totally devastated about your chances on moving to Finland. It is a difficult road if you have no ties to Finland. I guess its because of the social system. They give out a lot of stuff (healthcare, unemployment, education, etc.) and so they are quite choosey who they will let in to make sure the system can stay afloat. But, its certainly not impossible. If it were, there would be no site like this for all the foreigners living in Finland to come post!

I think the university idea is a good one. Make sure you save up enough money and plan your move carefully when that day comes. But I think you are looking at Finland at a good time. From talking to Finns I keep hearing that they are all worried about the "war babies" that are now close to retirement age. A whole bunch of people will all retire at the same time creating a vacuum in the work force. I will be taking some language classes pretty soon at a local school. There is a lady that works there who was talking about how excited she was to be getting foreigners into Finland to fill the job market. That attitude from some Finns is certainly comforting, to know that people like me are welcome here whereas in the US, not too many people have nice things to say about foreigners (especially ones from Mexico which is really a shame). But it will require a bit of work on your part and perhaps a fair bit of good fortune. Keep doing your research and don't be afraid to ask questions!

[neil]

Our company hired a pinche cabron mexican in October. He was from the Merida/Yucatan area. I say 'was' because we gave him a job and sorted our and paid for all his visas, transfers, accommodation - like EVERYTHING. He lasted for 12 weeks and then went home giving some BS excuses

The management were not very happy about that one I can tell you.

[meksikosuomen]

What the hell are going on with you NEIL?? first that picture of the peruvian people,, and next,, the """pinche cabron""" i know about some mother @#$% hooligans too,, but i dont will loose my time with it. Fortunately you are just another foreigner in Finland,, with a very stupid sense of humor,,, and sucking the money of a great country,,,but life is a merry go round, maybe one day you will be thrown out back to your island.

[KatGrrl]

Hank is absolutely right, immigration will Never give u a resident permit without a job. Even so, the process is to apply at your local embassy (i.e. in Mexico) before u get to Finland.

Going to school here is an option as it gives u an opportunity to see if u like it here and at the same time, network & learn Finnish (absolutely essential!). However, u'll still need to show that u've enough money to finance your daily allowances and that's to show a deposit of €5-10000 (?) a year. Pls start applying now as applications to universities close in March (Bachelor) and May (Masters). Polytechnics may have another deadline.

Sorry for the harsh news, bro. But that's the reality when it comes to Finland

[meksikosuomen]

Thanks hank,, mookoo, and Katgrrl,, dont worry about being frank, i know aint gonna be easy(((maybe impossible)),,, but all that information is very helpful for me,,, ..Hank,, getting a permit to live in USA is even more difficult for me,, you know Mexico is a third world country, with lots of economic, social and politic problems,, so millions of people try to cross the border every day for trying to get a best chance in the States,,, (((mookoo,, maybe you know more about it isnt??)))
And mine isnt just an economic porpouse,, i just want to get a chance simply because i like so much everything about Finland,, (and EVERYTHING means EVERYTHING)) Fortunately i have so many chances to be success in here, in comparisson with other mexicans, but just as i said before, money isnt my reason. Maybe my only oportunity will be to make frecuent trips to Finland in the coming years. Is strange Hank,, but you talked about cozumel,,, and in this moments, im thinking on the snow freezing me in Helsinki. Well,, Thanx,, i will keep in touch,, see you soon.

[neil]

you are just another foreigner in Finland,, with a very stupid sense of humor,,, and sucking the money of a great country,,,

These are baseless assumptions and are meaningless.

,,,but life is a merry go round, maybe one day you will be thrown out back to your island.

Regardless of the opinions you may have formed about me, let me give you a couple of pieces of universal advice: It is never a good idea to start insulting people when you are new to any given internet bulletin board/forum. There are many reasons for this and I will not go into them at this juncture. Secondly, if you feel annoyed by something somebody says you should never reply striaght away. It is better to stop, take a break/walk away from the computer and then reply.

It is a sad about Mexico and its poverty. I heard once that some 4% of the population control over 95% of the countries wealth.

Good luck with your relocation plans.

[Hank W.]

.Hank,, getting a permit to live in USA is even more difficult for me,, you know Mexico is a third world country, with lots of economic, social and politic problems,, so millions of people try to cross the border every day for trying to get a best chance in the States,

But in the USA there is a possibility to get work. In Finland - no. You can't just pop up and ask for work, and what would you do - pick icicles? And any illegal sticks out as a sore thumb. I just said as you probably know the US paperwork - Finland has the similar paperwork and bureaucracy. (As do all the Nordic countries, Denmark has by far the most draconian immigration laws if you imagined they're "liberal"). You know, from the Finnish immigration point of view, even USA is a "3rd world country" - if you are not Nordic or not EU then the process is quite hard.

Is strange Hank,, but you talked about cozumel,,, and in this moments, im thinking on the snow freezing me in Helsinki.

Yes, i am imagining in going with boiling water to try and get the car locks defrosted and then shovelling a meter of snow away. Cozumel anytime

[Hank W.]

It is never a good idea to start insulting people when you are new to any given internet bulletin board/forum. There are many reasons for this and I will not go into them at this juncture. .

Oiga, meksikosuomen, Neil es el abadesa aqui, así que no puede chisar en sus cheerios

[mookoo]

.Hank,, getting a permit to live in USA is even more difficult for me,, you know Mexico is a third world country, with lots of economic, social and politic problems,, so millions of people try to cross the border every day for trying to get a best chance in the States,

But in the USA there is a possibility to get work. In Finland - no. You can't just pop up and ask for work, and what would you do - pick icicles? And any illegal sticks out as a sore thumb. I just said as you probably know the US paperwork - Finland has the similar paperwork and bureaucracy. (As do all the Nordic countries, Denmark has by far the most draconian immigration laws if you imagined they're "liberal"). You know, from the Finnish immigration point of view, even USA is a "3rd world country" - if you are not Nordic or not EU then the process is quite hard.

Well, first off, its not easy to get into America right now. I mean, I am always seeing the advertisement for the green card lottery. American doesn't have any jobs, because America sends them all to other countries ... Mexico included ... but then the American companies throw a couple pennies at the workers and charge $20 for what they made when it arrives. But I would say its harder to get into America. From what I hear, Finland is being forced to open up since so many older generation Finns are nearing retirement. There simply aren't enough young Finns to fill all the jobs left open. So, the officials I have talked to, especially at schools and universities are all very eager to get more skilled foreigners into Finland. Maybe those people are just smoking too much pot, but I tend to take their word for it.

But also, I have noticed that EU and American citizens get many more encouraging words when it comes to moving to Finland. Especially if someone from Britain expresses a desire to move to Finland, there are like 20 people who list job-seeking websites to them. But folks from other nations get the ol' "ah, its impossible for you, so don't even try". Maybe its because people assume an EU citizen to be educated and everyone else in the world are knuckle-dragging neandertals. I don't know. But no one even bothered to ask meksikosuomen what his education background or current job is. I mean "picking icickles"? I hope you were joking Hank ... but even still ... its a really bad joke. And does everyone just assume that people from Mexico are always illegal aliens when they move somewhere? Sheesh! I thought Americans were racist! This is an open forum ... its not any of our jobs to decide who gets information and who doesn't ... and its also not our decision who gets to move here. I mean, if someone doesn't have what it takes to move here, then I guess thats the way it is. But even if you think that someone doesn't have a chance in hell of doing something, you should still let them try and find out. Anyway, I shall get off of my soapbox and do something useful with myself.

Here is the Aliens Act that was just amended last year. It has a bunch of information on how to get visas.

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

and a job-seekers website

http://www.jobs-in-europe.net/finland.html

Buena Suerte

[Hank W.]

[ Especially if someone from Britain expresses a desire to move to Finland, there are like 20 people who list job-seeking websites to them. But folks from other nations get the ol' "ah, its impossible for you, so don't even try". Maybe its because people assume an EU citizen to be educated and everyone else in the world are knuckle-dragging neandertals. I don't know.

As you are making an ass-of-u&me so everyone huddle up and read closely because I am going to explain this only once.

EU citizens are not necessarily educated - they just happen to be a group of people not needing any work permits. They can come here, spend their time finding a job and then register for a residence permit, which is automagically granted. The EU has legislation called "free movement of workforce" OK, nonwithstanding the so-called "new" EU countries which have to go through a work permit application process for a few years.
Also, all qualifications from one accredited EU country are to be recognized in another EU country by certain processes.

If you happen to be geographically challenged, both Finland and the UK are parts of this big happy family of nations called the EU. Consult places like http://www.europa.eu.int for a full explanation.

The difference between being EU and being Nordic is, while the Nordic status includes a few non-EU countries it also gives advantages in healtcare and welfare systems, its been going on since the 1950's so basically while a guy from Germany has to wait for 2 years residence to get KELA status a bloke from Sweden is treated basically as a citizen when it comes to benefits. if you are facing a lack of understanding what "Nordic" means consult http://www.norden.org

Now anyone not from the EU - meaning Russia, China, Mexico or the USA is a knuckle-dragging neandertal that needs to get a preapproved work permit to be granted a residence permit. Which is on the lines of "ah, its impossible for you, so don't even try". Simply because it is (Unless you are a hot professional specialist and coming over to work for Nokia or the likes. In that case you are not seeking work - the work has sought you and paid a headhunter, so those guys won't need advice on working). On your own you need to find the company willing to 'sponsor' you, i.e. hire you and wait for the process ~6 months or so. Consult the http://www.mol.fi website for the process of the prospective employer's need to gain a favorable opinion from the local employment authorities.

Ok, there is a way for the neandertals, if they hook up with a troglodyte and thus get in the family residence permit route. Details can be found at http://www.uvi.fi website. So if you have a hot blonde syndrome you have the marriage/cohabit option. This is what the majority of Americans seem to be doing.

And the job situation - theres several Americans here that have moved *with a Finnish spouse* so they have their permits all squared up - and lo and behold the bitch, moan & whine in trying to find a job - even you have qualifications not ordered from a prestigious university advertising on the back of the weekly world news. Check out the http://www.uranus.fi message boards of finding a job difficulties.

And what comes to illegals, or "undocumented workforce" some countries like the USA have a hell of a lot - an industry of bringing in undocumented workers to work in sweatshops. Finland has certain professions and areas that have sometimes undocumented workers, but that is something as a society we do not condone. Unlike in the USA where it is said without the illegals the agriculture in some states would collapse. If you have some hangups with Mexicans being illegal - last time I checked there wasn't many of them in Finland so I don't understand where you got that racism bit . I was saying that the prospects of finding undocumented work is even more difficult than finding documented work. And what comes to "picking icicles", as everyone knows, a non-EU citizen may come to Finland for 3 months to pick berries or fruits without the need of applying a work permi (and the income is tax-free as well) - but in case you haven't looked outside there is not much else to be picked at the moment.

Now you are welcome to be touchy-feely about yourself, but the bottom line is I think people appreciate more being told the facts than having some illusion turn into a rude awakening. Not all people have the luxury for that, some people have to work for a living you know. And I wouldn't advise someone to hop on a plane and spend a fortune just to find out they're coming back on the same plane loosing all prospects of re-entry, when with a little planning one could actually make the dream come true.

And I am a realist - what talent & profession does a 23-year old dude from outside the EU have that some 23-year of dude in the EU does not have?

[ajdias]

Hank, is it EU-citizens or EU-residents? Say, someone from outside the EU living in Spain with a proper residence permit for the country would then be allowed to come to Finland and look for a job without a work permit?

It is much easier to get to Spain or portugal than up north. For once those countries are more permissive and do not have these rigurous population controls we find here in finland. They also run campaigns every so often to legalize those unregistered emmigrants,. Second, there's plenty of black labour for those who aren't bothered to work for little money or have no other option. And don't forget the language, for south and central americans.

[pierrot]

Hank, is it EU-citizens or EU-residents? Say, someone from outside the EU living in Spain with a proper residence permit for the country would then be allowed to come to Finland and look for a job without a work permit?

As far as I understand Shengen, the liberty of moving and working where you want is for the citizens, not the residents.
This means a spanish residence/working permit wont be worth anything here except that you dont need a visa to enter the country at all as its part of Shengen, but you can only stay for a limited period imho.

[Hank W.]

The wording is "EU nationals" which I think means citizens (or in case of dual citizenship "holding a passport of an EU country").

I'd agree on the Spain option, but our man wants snow...

One place they do employ non-EU foreigners (and with quite some money coming in too) -are the fish factories in north Norway - not much need of speaking language or having degrees - now that will heal the yearning of seeing ice for sure